Greetings, and welcome back to the final 2023 edition of ZacCast, your official podcast for local government nerdery. I am Chad, and that is Patrick. How you doing, bud?

I'm good, man. I'm good. Let's talk Christmas movies today. I'm excited.

Yeah, I think ... So we're gonna hit some r- uh, some retail stuff, uh, both on the, on the leasing and store size question, and then also just on actual retail demand, like retail sales, some kind of things that we've been seeing. So Patrick's gonna hit on that one. But first, Patrick, I wanted to, since we're coming up on the e- the year, I'm coming up on five years in ZachTax, and so I just wanted to give you a little bit of love here before we start today's episode.

Okay.

So I appreciate you indulging me here.

Yep.

I've just been kind of reminiscing and thinking about it, 'cause I'm, like I said, coming up on five years. When we got to this point, uh, or the, th- when we got to the point where it's like, okay, we maybe should take this leap, like, sometimes I think we're not quite as far as I wanna be, but I think most of that's because we have so many ideas and things we wanna do. But when you kind of step back and see, like, where we've gotten to, it's, it's just been kind of a wild ride. Um, so I wanna take you back to May 2018, okay?

Mm-hmm.

So I only had one kid at this time, so. Right? We're both in Hudson Oaks. We're both just kind of, like, trying to change our little corner of the world for the better, right?

Mm-hmm.

So around this time, um, news breaks that a home-and-home series has been scheduled with Texas and Alabama.

Okay.

And it comes out that the reason that this was scheduled is because we asked A&M, and they said, "No, no, no, no, no. Our, our schedule is way too busy. We've got ... " I mean, "We've got power-"

This is the Orange Box version.

"We've got powerhouses like Appalachian State on our schedule. We can't possibly move them, so you gotta go pound sand." So instead, we call up old Nicky Saban, and we schedule a home-and-home with Alabama. And now, because of that, we're in the playoffs and on the precipice of our fifth actual national championship, not one of those pretend ones from, like, you know, the '30s. So I just want to say, with all of this reminiscing, I really, we really need to be thanking A&M for not scheduling that game, 'cause otherwise we probably wouldn't be here where we are. I mean, beating up on, you know, a, a team that's barely 500, that wouldn't really have helped our resume, so, so thank you from the bottom of my heart.

I, I hope some of our employees listen to this episode, because this level of cocky is what I try to describe to people when it comes to Texas football. This is the we're back, baby Texas fan in Chad right here, right? Like, all humility has been lost. He is 100% in the we are the best of the best of the best, and it's, it's as if you have Vince Young as your quarterback again, and you're about to go win the Rose Bowl. Like, it's, uh, it's good to see that you're healthy, you know, and, and that, uh, you, you, you are excited again about football, and, and that once again, you know, you pick on the, you know, the, uh, the dear old Aggies.

The little brother.

Right? Um-

The little brother.

But let's-

Okay

... let's talk, let's talk a little bit. Are you s- are you still going on that? 'Cause I wanna talk a little bit about that. Like-

Sure, yeah. Go ahead.

Five, five years, um, you know, we've, we've technically been a company for significantly longer than that, right?

Right.

Uh, we dabbled in some other things, and, um, some things were good, some things were not. Uh, we got better, uh, built Zach, uh, got Zach to a point where we were able to hire Allison. Allison got Zach to a point to where you were able to roll out full-time. Um, you know, I thought it would be significantly longer. I thought it, you know, I probably wouldn't be rolling out for, you know, two to three years after you rolled out. That ended up being, like, 11 months maybe.

Mm-hmm.

I think after nine months I actually gave notice, right? G- we gave Hudson Oaks a ton of time. So I, I really, like, I'm at the point, like, from a wildest dream standpoint, um, I didn't think we would be where we are today, right? Like, we're in the state of Texas. We've driven and been a part of this driving force of using analytics to make decisions. That's, that's been the coolest part for me. Uh, and then as a company just growing, I actually went back with Doug, um, you know, we joke that we have, Doug and I have Friday financial phone calls, but the other day we were kind of looking at end of year numbers and kind of seeing where we were, and as a company, you know, we've grown 30 to 40% a year for, like, the last three or four years, and it's been wild. It's been a wild ride to continue to do that. I, I don't see that slowing down. I think we're gonna continue to do that, especially as we move to other states and other areas. But it has been, um, it's been a lot of fun. It's a lot of fun to do that with my best friend. Thanks, Chad. Appreciate that. Um, you know, those first nine months of you rolled out and living the incredible life of, you know, uh, you have flexibility and everything else, and then me rolling out and having the same thing now. Um, but really just the ability to kind of continue to u- take our crazy off-the-wall ideas and, uh, and do some, some cool things with them. Uh, I, I don't know. Have you, have you read any of the stuff about, um, you know, Buffett and Munger, Charlie Munger at all?

Yeah, so when, when Munger died, I did read some articles, and it turns out that I think, uh, I think it ... I don't remember it ... I don't remember all the details, but I know that I, I, I recognize quite a bit of our dynamic in some of those stories.

So yeah, I mean, I think, uh, you know, we've, we've always joked, uh, about, you know, Steve Jobs and Wozniak, right? Like, that's always been kind of our internal joke. I don't ... Maybe we've talked about it on the podcast. I don't, I don't know if we have. Uh, but-The, I actually think the Buffett Munger dynamic is probably more likely. I, I can't remember the nickname that Buffett has for Munger or had for Munger, but it was like the guy who, uh, what, what does he say? He's the, he's the no guy, right?

Mm-hmm.

Uh, and, and you, like, constantly have to... I mean, this week is, is, last week is a prime example. Like, you, you constantly have to live in a world of bring me back to reality on some things. So-

Yeah, but that's been the case since, for the past almost 10 years now, I guess.

Yeah. Yeah. But that dynamic has, has been very beneficial. Um, you know, I, I have very little fear of risk, right? So, like, I, I just, you know, my risk tolerance is really, really high. I think you're the same way, but you're more reasonable from a standpoint of, like, um... Like, I, I wanna win everything by a Hail Mary, right? Like, I just wanna go out there, I wanna throw that ball 60 yards down the field to get a touchdown. Um, and you would think me being the offensive lineman, uh, that played a little bit, uh, you would think that the offensive lineman would be the guy who wants to win life three to four yards at a time, which is, I think, what I, what I like to do, but you're probably actually better at winning it three to four yards at a time than I am. Um, so it's been fun, man. It's been, it's been a great ride. And to think where we are now with the employees that we have now and the company that's been built has been, has been tremendous. So, yeah.

Yeah.

Five, five years, man.

Yeah. I mean, I, I appreciate the, uh, the sort of look back. Really, I was just using that as an ex- like, as excuse to get-

I-

... get my dig in.

Uh-uh.

But I do appreciate that. Maybe we, maybe we can some point at the beginning of the year do a, a state of the, state of Zach tax or something. Um, but we do have some pretty cool-

I thought you were gonna get sappy and, like, finally tell you- tell me that you loved me. I mean, I've been waiting for that for years. I just thought it was gonna happen right now.

That's not, not gonna happen. Um, it's, it's deep down, but that's just not something that I can convey outwardly.

You only share that with one person in your life. I guess you love your parents.

And my kids.

Your kids, yeah.

Yeah. Um, usually.

Occasionally.

Okay. So 10 minutes in, let's get into some actual meat and potatoes here, Patrick.

Okay.

Uh, why don't you go ahead and start, and then we'll, we'll talk about the one I sent you.

Well, let's talk about retail. Um, let's talk about retail in general being softer than Santa's belly right now. Um, I've had just been inundated with phone calls as sales tax numbers have come out, uh, last week. Uh, we're still waiting on the raw data to come in, but had a lot of conversations with city managers that are seeing sales tax numbers that are down, especially retail-dependent cities, cities that have heavy retail users, seeing sales tax numbers that are down 3, 4. Uh, I had one phone call where somebody was down 11%. We've kinda predicted that. You know, we, we had a podcast a couple of, maybe a month ago or so, where we specifically talked about just consumer spending is down, and it's doesn't look like it's gonna go back up because there's just not the availability of capital for consumers to spend. Uh, it's, there's just been a significant reduction in savings rates and s- other things, and, and eventually the, the faucet is gonna slow down. I think we're seeing that faucet slow down. Uh, predictions for the holiday period are solid. I think we're probably, you know, my kinda comments to folks h- have been, "Hey, let's, let's look at our January and February numbers before we really get to, you know, like, a budget amendment mode." I, I don't wanna say freak-out mode 'cause we don't really ever freak out 'cause we know what's coming. Um, but you know, we may need to kinda start to slow down some capital expenditures and some things like that to be able to be prepared for some type of adjustment that may happen in March or April, uh, in the fiscal year to account for that, you know, 3 or 4% of sales tax that, uh, that is, is soft in that area. So just, I, I wanna say it again, I know we've said it a couple of times, but we just r- wanna reiterate it. The data continues to show that retail sales are soft, and the future data continues to show that it's going to continue to soften. So if you're heavily retail dependent, um, and that does include, like, builders' goods and construction goods because there's some softness in the construction industry as well, um, you know, just be aware, step back for a minute, and start to look at how dependent are you on that from a revenue standpoint, and you probably need to start thinking through some adjustments so that we're not freaking out in May or June when we're trying to balance a budget as we're trying to do next year's budget. Um, so just kinda wanna get that out. Y- you have anything else to chime in on, or did I kinda cover the bases on that one?

I think you pretty much nailed it.

Yeah.

We, we've, we've-

I mean, you know, Christmas sales numbers-

We've brought up-

... for retailers has been okay.

Yeah.

So I think January, February may kinda help buoy us a little bit, um, to get us kinda through. 'Cause obviously in a lot of retail-dependent cities, those are your big months. Um, but you know, we're still seeing softness in month-over-month tracking, so.

Yeah. And we've, uh, we have brought up this question from a variety of different angles over the past couple of months, whether, like you mentioned, the savings rates, whether it's, um, stores like Walmart, um-

Mm-hmm

... issuing cautionary notes about holiday spending and things like that, so. And then when you see it in the actual data, I think there's just, there's a lot of little pieces here that you can kind of connect the dots on. Um, this is why I think, though, it's so important, because when you look at sort of big picture macroeconomic news, you know, like GDP 5.2% last quarter, right? Like, there's a lot of things that suggest that maybe the economy is, is good, even though the sentiment about the economy is not good.

Mm-hmm.

But those kinds of data points are largely irrelevant when you talk about an actual individual city. And so, uh, you know, as you're managing your, your budget in the current year looking forward, you, you have to look at the actual on-the-ground details and not just what's the big picture, um, sort of macroeconomic trends. Like, those influence the local and sort of the micro, um, but every, every location's different, and so it's just important to really keep good tabs on that.

Well, and, and we rarely say things like this, but I'm gonna say this out loud. If you use a... If you don't use us, but you listen to our podcast, and you use a vendor that does projections for you, and they're doing, like, a good, better, best projection, you're gonna be in some trouble this year. You might as well go ahead and prepare yourself.

You're gonna have-

Right

... a bad time like that South Park meme.

You're, you're gonna, you're gonna, you're gonna have a bad time. So, I mean, we, we saw the softness in retail coming well before the budget season last year. I mean, the predictability was there. The numbers were there. It's very '07 look from a standpoint of, like, what the Fed is trying to do and monetary policy and things like that. So, um, you know, we have the data going back to see that. And so, you know, and then as you start to look at, if you're one of our users, one of our customers, and you start to look at, um, the next couple of months and signal within our platform, um, is gonna continue to get smarter as we get a couple extra months in the system. You know, looking at that lower band is probably a safe place to be right now. Just my two cents.

That's great news, Patrick.

Hey.

That's great news.

Just so positive before the year.

To end the year on.

I mean, the, the, the positive news is, is the, you know, the Black Friday sales numbers and the, and the initial December sales numbers for retailers show to be, you know, basically add inflation, right? I mean, we've seen a lot of retailers kind of release data that shows that they're 3 to 4% up verse last year's sales. So I think you're still gonna be able to get your buffer months in there, uh, but that's technically, like if you look at it in our system, that's technically a loss still, right?

Yeah.

Because you're not beating inflation numbers. So, um, you know, we're just trying to, trying to throw that out there so that everybody can kinda hear and be warned that it, there are some, uh, there are some headwinds in the way. And, um, you know, just listened to a, a podcast from The Wall Street Journal today, uh, that Janet Yellen was doing, and, and, you know, she's confident, Treasury Secretary, uh, is confident that we're gonna have a, they keep calling it a soft landing, right? Um, you know, but they also mentioned that things look very similar to 2007, and 2007 was not much of a soft landing, right?

No.

Um, had a lot of other issues in '07. Um, you know, watched The Big Short, such a good movie. So, but, um, you know, I, I don't think we're really faced with some of those, those issues. Uh, but I think, you know, consumer spending is just, um, the lack of availability in capital for consumers is, is just shows to be prolonged at this point.

Yeah.

So until we see interest rate reductions, sometime, my prediction, sometime in 2024.

So I'm also wondering, and may- maybe you've talked to people about this, but w- we haven't had to do, I mean, other than, you know, consulting work, we haven't actually had to do our own sales tax forecasts to set a budget in-

Mm-hmm

... four or five years now. I cannot imagine what it would've been like going through the pandemic, right? Everything is shut down. Like, everyone's panicking. But then immediately sales tax jumps up double digits for like the next 18 months. Then you have inflation hitting almost 10%, and sales tax is still increasing-

Mm-hmm

... in, in high single, low double digits. And then all of a sudden, like, the, the wheels kinda fall off. So like, I wonder how much those mismatched expectations have made it difficult for people to figure out what in the world is actually gonna happen over the next 12 months to actually set their budget. 'Cause we, we ta- I know we have talked to several people who were quite aggressive with their-

Mm-hmm

... retail sales expectations for this year.

Yeah, so I think first let's talk about the disconnect between, um, the city management crew and, like, the finance and budgetary departments, right?

Mm-hmm.

Uh, I think that's the thing that I've seen the most is, um, the city management crew has said, "Okay, we've got these increasing costs. We have these increasing salaries and personnel costs, so forth and so on. We need to go do these projects." Like, we're just, um, you know, there's a little bit of, uh, no offense to my city manager friends, Chad and I both were in that role. Um, but there's a little bit of, like, Scrooge McDuck, like the money's there, let's go swimming, right, in, in the, uh, in the gold, right? I- and then the finance departments I think were, were getting a little bit more conservative, and they were bringing projections in. So we've heard this from a couple of different cities where the finance department kinda laid out a projection that was fairly conservative because they saw these headwinds, but the budget figure was, uh, was higher, the expense need was higher, and so they kinda just round up some of those numbers in sales tax and round up some of those numbers in collections, right, to get to that. And, um, you know, I, I think, uh, that's, that's a telltale sign of, you know, things have gotten crossways, right? It's like bond yields crossing. You know, don't cross streams if you're a Ghostbusters fan. Like, that's kinda what we do. Uh, when, when expenses are driving revenue expectations, we're in the wrong, we're in the wrong place, and we have quite a few cities that are, that have done that, uh, because it's just, like, the money has just been growing on trees for the past couple of years, right? Like, inflation's 9%, oh, no big deal, I got 17% new sales tax revenue. Right? I mean, um, so I, I, I think that's, that's been a, a bit of an issue. And we, we really have to get back to budgetary side is controlled by revenue projections, and we don't really do the expense side of the budget until we know what our revenues are. Uh, and, uh, I think that would be a much safer way to do that. We're gonna get into that reset because I, I can tell you in fiscal year '24, the current fiscal year we're in, there is going to be some resets in April or May. Just get ready for it. Uh, it's, you can, you can feel it. You can sniff out the equation. It's there. Uh, we know there's gonna be some resets. Some cities that are faster growth and have more going on probably will be buoyed and stabilized, but the reality is, is that some of our older growth communities are gonna get hit pretty quick and pretty hard. So it's gonna happen, and there's, revenue's gonna drive the decision-making because the revenue's just not gonna be there to live in the expense environment that they're currently in.

All right, well, let's shift gears a little bit and, uh, and talk about this, this Wall Street Journal article. It's called The American Store Is Shrinking.And it goes into some detail about changing patterns with retail leasing. Um, some data from CoStar Group and, uh, and CBRE, a couple of other, you know, data providers, uh, indicate that the average... In fact, the average, uh, retail lease is now at the lowest point that it's been since CoStar started taking this data in 2006, right? It's, like, down to 3,200 square feet. On average, there's a shift away from big box stores. Even those bigger department stores are trying different concepts with smaller, smaller footprints. You're seeing a shift in, in the makeup as well with, with food and drink, uh, tenants popping into those, those smaller spaces. And then you're also seeing, uh, the effect of sort of online, online sales, data analytics. So stores are trying to get smarter about the types of inventory that they keep in those locations so they don't have to have quite as much. They don't need as much, uh, space, uh, because they're, they're just trying to keep the inventory, uh, limited. So you actually noticed this recently, didn't you?

Yeah, so I mean, um, we had to go... It's basketball season, so we had to go get basketball shoes for the boys, so we, we went to Dick's, uh, Sporting Goods. And, um, ironically, two things I noticed. One, we went to Dick's Sporting Goods, uh, in your neck of the woods, so we went to the one at Heritage Trace.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and we normally don't have to go all the way there anymore 'cause we have a new one that's kinda in, you know, southwestern Fort Worth now. Um, first thing we notice when we walk in the door though, my, uh, my son, as he walks in the door, he's like, "Man, this Dick's Sporting Goods is huge compared to ours," right? The one in Heritage Trace was built in 2006, 2007 maybe, somewhere around there. Uh, and the one that we have on the southwest side of Fort Worth was built, like, a year ago. And so, but the size difference is enormous. I mean, you... We're talking 30, 40% more floor space at this, uh, at the one at Heritage Trace compared to the one that was just built a year ago. So that, that was kind of the first thing we noticed as we walked in the door. The other thing we noticed is when we went to go shop for basketball shoes, the actual stock inside of the store was super limited. Uh, you know, obviously we live in the DFW region, so they, like, you know, a black and white Luka, you know, Nike shoe, right? Like, they had the sizes for those, but if you wanted, like, the fancy colored Luka, you had to order it online. You had to go to the kiosk, and you had to, like, you know, scan it and order it online and go that route. So it's just a... You, you could tell that they're severely limiting the amount of inventory they're carrying on anything in store, right? Um, and they're pushing you to e-commerce, but they are pushing you to e-commerce in a very interesting way because if you buy that shoe online at the kiosk in the store, right, the sales tax gets generated in the store. And so that is very interesting to me that that's become more common, um, especially in the soft goods industry. Uh, it's always something my wife complains about. She really likes to go shop and likes to, like, touch clothing and try stuff on and do stuff like that, so it's... It is very interesting to me that that has become more and more common. You... We walked into J.Crew the other day, same thing. If J.Crew doesn't have your size, they've got a little kiosk there that you can click and sign into your J.Crew account real quick, and boom, boom, boom, you're done, and it's bought, and it's bought in store, quote, unquote. So, um, those are kind of the things that I've noticed lately. It's become a lot more familiar. You had an incident, though. Uh, I don't know if you're really prepared to talk about this on the podcast, but you had an incident the other day, like, where you just randomly, like, downloaded the Target app 'cause you had to do, like, a Target pickup.

Oh, yeah.

And it's normally something your wife does.

Mm-hmm.

And when you open the app, what happened? It was we- it was, like, crazy, right?

Okay, so real quick, that Dick's was built in 2007.

Hey, that was... Oh.

Yeah.

Did I, did I say '06 or '07? I can't remember, but it was close.

Yeah. Well, uh, the best I can tell, because that particular parcel includes some other stuff, but 2007's a pretty good estimate.

Y- you know how I remember that, though? Because we used to drive to school from-

That's what we call the truck from the Cheddar's.

Yeah, for grad school, we would drive to that Cheddar's, and then after we got done, usually one night a week after we got done, we would go in there and grab, uh, like, a spinach dip at Cheddar's and drink some beer, right? So th- those were fun times, man. That old blue truck, I wish you would've kept the old blue truck.

Uh, it needed to go. I mean, first of all, I couldn't even use it now 'cause it-

It had a strong rumble when you drove it.

It did, and it could fit... It, it only had a, it's, like, a single cab, so-

Yeah

... uh, it would be useless now. Um, but was that also the truck where someone had broken into... They'd, like, jimmied the key.

Yes, you had to-

So I had to go in through the passenger seat-

You had to go passenger door

... and then open the door with my drumstick. Yes.

Yes. Yes.

Man, the life of a poor college student.

Okay.

You-

We didn't need any more than that, though.

No, you just get by.

Right? Like, I talk about that all the time. Like, Jennifer and I, we, you know, our first apartment was 723 square feet, right? We were, we were paying $6 or $640 a month in rent. Like, we didn't need any more than that. It was great. So it's funny how lifestyles expand.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay, so, uh, so yeah. Usually my wife does the online orders, like, from Target, from Walmart, whatever. Sometimes I'll go pick them up. She'll, she'll text me the code, um-

Mm-hmm

... and I'll go in there and pick them up. But, uh, this past week I needed to do it myself, um, because I was going to the Big 12 Championship game. So I needed to run-

Let me, let me go ahead. Let me plug that real quick. Yeah, go ahead.

So I needed to, uh, to run to Target because after the game, naturally we have Christmas pictures, 'cause that's what we do-

Mm-hmm

... is take pictures almost every week. So I had to go get a sweater from Target. I order it online. I run over to pick it up. Um, but when I, uh, when I sign into the app, I've never downloaded the app before. I do have a Target account, but I've never-

Right

... downloaded the app before, okay? Um, we have a, like, the phone number that you can enter for your Circle rewards, I use my wife's phone number. I don't use mine.Um, so when I, when I open the app and I log in, it suggests two different stores to be my store. One of them is my store that's... 'cause it's closest to me geographically. The other one is the Target in downtown Sacramento.

Which you were there for Cal Cities, right?

We were there for Cal Cities. We ran into the Target, uh, you know, for 15 minutes, grab a couple... Actually, we grabbed candy for the booth.

Okay.

But I didn't enter any kind of phone number. I didn't enter anything that would otherwise identify me. I didn't have the app for it to track my location. So yeah, it was, it was kinda freaky. I was, I was curious how they would, how they would do it. The, the phone number would be an easy way. May- may-

Facial recognition

... maybe credit cards.

Credit cards, facial recognition.

Yeah.

Yeah. I mean-

Like, I, I know they didn't search through all of my location data on my phone, 'cause it was instantaneous.

Yeah.

Like, like they wouldn't have been able, like, to search through all that to try to find a different store, 'cause they would've had to, like, do some web lookups, uh, based on those locations. So yeah, maybe credit cards, that it know, it knows that my account has this credit card, which was also used in this other store. But, so yes, the use of analytics is getting extremely precise and robust-

Mm-hmm

... in the retail sector.

Yeah, I mean, I remember sitting through a marketing class at A&M, um, in my undergrad, and we ha- we actually had a representative of, uh, H-E-B who came in and talked about, like, how they build stores, right? At that point, and like, the analytics use was, you know, we like to build stores where everybody has to consistently move right to left because shopping right to left you see more product and spend more money. Um, that was like basic, basic marketing analytics, right? Now it's, I mean, I don't know what they're doing now.

Is that why the cool stuff is always on the... Wait, wait, wait. They like to move right to left?

Yeah, so they like to have the more expensive items right of the store, right? So produce, fresh produce.

Yeah.

Right? Fresh meats, steak, cold cuts, the, the price per pound is always gonna be higher in those areas, right? And then as you go in the store, so you go from that to alcohol typically, right? 'Cause that's the next highest volume, uh, sale vi- item that they have. And then you move in, if you look at the goods it's all based on the market that they're in, but at that point the dry goods are based on that as well. So and then now they use analytics to see, like, what are people reaching for, putting back, looking at, putting back. And they're, you know, I would imagine-

Do they use, like, AI camera vision?

... 'cause I know they were told this. Oh yeah, it's all over. Yeah. So, um, so much so that, like-

The same, the same tech that Amazon uses in their airport stores where you just walk in, grab something, and leave. It can detect what you've picked up, what you've put back.

Cor- correct. And, and so when, when they were building that store here in Hudson Oaks, um, you know, I don't know this directly from H-E-B, but like they, they shut down like the whole store construction process for a couple of days and just did tech, just installed technology with a tech team, right? They have a hub in Austin that that's all they do is technology, um, and, and basically marketing technology. So, um, and my wife has that app where like, you know, based on where she is and things like that, like it's gonna show her a coupon based on what she's looking at. It's, that's, it's just, it's wild how advanced that's gotten. Uh, you know, same thing happens with, um, you know, like I walked into a Vineyard Vines store the other day in Southlake, right? And I immediately got an email from Vineyard Vines as I'm walking out when I didn't buy anything with like a discount code. So I mean, yeah, that's, it's, it's crazy, right? It's creepy. So are they tracking the device?

They could have beacons in the store.

I'm not sure. Um, they probably have beacons in a store, but I'm not sure they're actually tracking my physical device maybe, uh, just 'cause I'm an iPhone user, and so that's a little more difficult. But are they tracking credit card data? I mean, I think facial recognition has gotten extremely, you know, more common, uh, within that side. But retailers, man, they don't talk about it because of privacy concerns.

Yeah, it's creepy.

Yeah.

So, so what do they, what insights do they get if they see me looking at the, like, the barbecue sauce aisle, and I, like, pick up, you know, Sweet Baby Ray's and then I put it down and I pick up a different one and I take that one?

Yeah, I, I-

Like, how are they assuming what, why I made that decision?

Could be that one-

It could-

... has more sugar than the other or-

Right, but how do they know that?

Yeah.

Could be price, could be calorie content, could be flavor.

I would imagine that in today's world, uh, 'cause, you know, we do this on our side of the business, there's probably some AI models that are generating some probabilities for them, right, of what you're looking at and how you're looking at it, and then they-

Based on all of the other things that I've done that for and what I typically buy.

That's correct. Yeah. And then-

Am I, am I buying the low-fat sour cream or the regular sour cream?

Correct. Yeah.

Then maybe this is a, a health question.

So like, so every morning, you know, anybody who knows me knows that, you know, I've been on crazy workouts, lost a lot of weight, and done some fun things lately, but every morning I eat a Two Good Yogurt, which is like a two-gram sugar yogurt, right? So, um, I get just randomly, I mean, I don't go online and buy that, my wife does the grocery shopping, right? But somehow randomly I get Dannon Yogurt who promotes to me, uh, on Facebook for me to get the high protein version of the Two Good, both made by Dannon by the way, but it's a more expensive version of the same thing, just has more protein packed into it. So like that's the world we live in.

Yeah.

And that happens to everybody. Everybody's inbox gets inundated with that stuff.

Yeah. It's, honestly it's not a world that I wanna live in, but-

What was the Will Smith movie-

... what am I gonna do about it?

What was the Will Smith movie, like, where he was being tracked and he like, he-

Enemy of the State?

Enemy of the State.

Yeah.

Like, you know, how would you survive in Enemy of the State-

Or Minority Report

... you know, circa 2000, yeah, 2023, right?That's, uh, that's wild. So, but still a country based on free will, right? Minority Report's still a little psycho. Let's hope it continues to stay that way. So anyways-

So, so what kind of opportunities, Patrick, does this offer for a city who has existing retail space and they're trying to fill an empty store? Like, I know of a J.C. Penney store front that was empty for almost a decade, uh, in a nearby city. If there's a push to s- for smaller space, does that mean more tenants? Does that mean we need to rethink kind of how we're building these centers? Like, what are the takeaways?

I, I ... Yeah, I mean, I think the takeaway is is that a lot of the same technology that those retailers are using are also available to cities to make wise decisions on where your recruitment dollars and time should go. Um, some of that, you know, just pitch and work here for a minute. Some of that we can do, right? We can take into account your demographics, we can take into account co-tenancy, we can take into account all those things, put them inside of an AI model and basically tell you who you should go recruit, and you can work with some of those recruitment teams that are out there. You know, Retail Coach is one that we deal with all the time. And so, you know, there, there is plenty of, uh, of data-driven decision making that can be had in the economic development group. We, we used to do that early, right? We've always done that. Cell phone analytics, um, license plate studies. I mean, it's just a, it's a new, um, data source, and it's a new ability to go out and do that. So i- in today's world, you should be able to look at, I've got these 10 retailers, and they perform at this level, and if these 10 retailers perform at this level, there should be, you know, some type of ability for this retailer, and this retailer, and retailer to also work at that level, right? So, um, it's, it's not rocket science, it's just the ability to data process to get to that point.

Yeah. You get dangerous- dangerously close to, uh, to moneyballing some of that stuff.

You do, yeah.

Which-

Absolutely.

So-

But-

Well, uh, one, one thing this mentions here is that, that experience, like I hate those, like, lifestyle center concept.

Oh.

It's all, it all seems kind of fake, but it does mention that retail is shifting more towards experience, towards food and dining and things like that, so.

Yeah. I mean, I-

Having, having a built environment that encourages that as opposed to maybe some big ugly box can probably help you as well, make it, make it a more attractive location.

Yeah. I mean, I- I ... Correct. Yeah. I mean, but it's just gotten more advanced, right? It's, it's not that ... Like I had lunch last week with a, a real estate broker that I know really well that represents a lot of haircut places, and a lot of those haircut places love to go next to Walmarts, right? So that's how they think about it. They look at it next to Walmart. I actually ... They use a vendor that uses cell phone analytics that, you know, tells them, "This is, this is the best performing store here, and best performing store here," and so forth, and we've talked about this a little bit that we've never been able to justify the numbers that they provide to these people. But ... And, and I kinda warned him on that. Um, but the reality is is that, uh, you know, now we really can, and we do have the computing power and the ability to go in and do these analysis at, you know, what I would consider a reasonable cost. Um, where, you know, before you could do it, but you would have to build these models, and it would just be huge labor-intensive work, uh, to get done. And, and we just, we could do that now at, at less labor than we would have then. Um, and they're still cheaper to do that than, say, your old license plate studies and things like that that would be done, right? So I, I think it is moneyballing, but that, that is a better way than, um, you know, throwing a dart at a bullseye is a better idea than taking a shotgun and trying to hit everything with buckshot, right? Like that's ... Or birdshot would be the better way, actually, so. But I mean, the, the reality is is that some economic development departments are people who are recruiting, and that's kinda your question is, like, how do you, how do you fill that empty space or what do you go after? First you gotta figure out what are you, what are you missing in your market dynamic, you know? And it's, it's not leakage from the '90s and 2000s here. Like, you know, in today's world, leakage reports mean absolutely nothing. Uh, if, if you call us and ask for some type of leakage analysis, we're gonna ... There's no way to do it. With e-commerce you're never gonna know what your actual leakage is. Um, and so, you know, really how do you, how do you recruit and know exactly what you should be throwing your darts at? Uh, 'cause you only have so many darts to throw.

Yeah. It's also gonna add a lot of complexity, because-

Mm

... if big retailers ... Well, I don't know. It's gonna change the dynamic for sure because of how sales tax nexus works.

Yep.

If you're doing actual delivery and distribution from a Walmart s- store, that's much different than if you had some kind of distribution center, because now it's being delivered from a place of business.

Yeah.

But you also, with the rise of curbside pickup, like, those traffic counts don't matter.

Correct.

Yeah. It's gonna be ... Pro- well, probably we should spend some time talking about that next year, 'cause-

We, we, yeah, we probably, we probably sh-

... it's really going to affect how, how cities think about recruiting.

And, and I think the other side of that too is, you know, it ... I just wanna ... I don't wanna get into this, but we can get into this next year for sure. Um, what are you missing, right? If, if you do have, like, you know, it was very difficult to understand this previously, but now you could actually do it with the data. But if I really wanna recruit a specific grocer, right, or I wanna recruit a specific player, whatever that may be, what am I missing, uh, from the demographics? It's ... I, I think that's also an important tidbit of information. So what should your residential development look like? You know, how do you, um, how do you better equip your city to be more fiscally sound on the revenue side through development patterns? Like, that's also an area that you should really look at deeply.

Yep. Feel like housing is a very underappreciated part of economic development be- just because we tend to focus so much on retail recruitment.

I, I, I would agree with that 100%. And, and really in most retail recruitment, housing is all about how many people are within a three-mile or five-mile-

Mm-hmm

... um, but that's funny, that's really only kind of like a, a, a very small measurement for retailers. Um, you know, so it's, you know, there are still dominoes in the business, right? Like dominoes fall with certain things, you know. If you bring in multifamily, you're more likely to get sit-down restaurants. It's, that's, that's always been a domino, right? If you have sit-down restaurants, then you're more likely to get a hotel. Also a domino, right? So I mean, it's just there, there are trends and patterns there that can be identified, and each market's gonna be a little different. But how you utilize that residential development and how you develop it is also gonna play a significant role in how those dominoes, uh, are set up and how they'll fall over time. And you could put yourself in a better position by doing things wiser on the front end, on the land playing side. We just don't think that, we don't think that far ahead right now. We don't, we don't try to go look at a raw 2,000 acres. I say most communities don't try to go look at a raw 2,000 acres and say, "Okay, how, how can this be developed with a partner developer and done correctly so that we can build a sustainable community and also a community that people enjoy to live in?" 'Cause sustainable and enjoyment are two different things. I wanna s- I wanna say that out loud. This kind of gets back to that Moneyball. You cannot Moneyball everything. Um, but you know, how do you, how do you kind of create the middle ground there-

Yeah

... that you get, you get the best of both worlds?

Cool. Well, I wasn't expecting to get-

Are we gonna get into fun?

Yeah, I wasn't expecting it to-

Yeah

... to go that direction, so that's, that's fine. Okay, let's wrap this up. We are sitting at 40 minutes, give or take.

Ooh.

So what I have done here for you, Patrick-

Lightning round

... I went to the Googles and I-

Mm-hmm

... searched for the best 50 to 100 Christmas movies. I have selected 26, partially based on... I didn't put too many, like, older movies because I just haven't seen all them. I doubt you've seen most of them too.

Mm-hmm.

So I tried to pick movies that I kind of assumed that you'd seen or at least knew about. So if I name one that you haven't seen, it's just gonna get, it's just gonna get hosed. Um-

Okay

... then I randomized the order, so it's not like a traditional bracket 'cause I don't have enough movies.

Did, did you randomize the order or did our-

ChatGPT

... or ChatGPT did, yes. Okay

Yes, randomized the order. Okay.

Yeah. Okay.

So, so there is, there's no seating. It is just completely random. I'm gonna give you two. You have three seconds to pick one.

Okay.

And then we're gonna move down the list to find the number one. I have a feeling we'll both agree on what the number one is, but we'll see how everything else shakes out, okay?

Okay.

If you also disagree that it is a Christmas movie, I w- would like your opinion on that.

Okay, gotcha.

All right. Round number one: Violent Night versus Love Actually.

Love Actually.

Not a Christmas movie.

Such a good movie, though.

All right, bracket-

I'm, I'm a sucker for love movies.

Yeah, but it's not a Christmas movie.

Yeah.

It happens at Christmas, but come on.

That's true.

Okay.

Yeah.

Are you ready?

Mm-hmm.

It's a Wonderful Life versus Christmas Vacation.

Christmas Vacation.

Yeah, obviously. Okay.

Yeah.

The orig-

That is a hard one to put up against each other. I'm just gonna say that.

The orig-

It's a, It's a Wonderful Life

... Christmas Vacation's gonna win, hands down, every time. Okay.

Yeah, yeah. Go ahead.

The original How the Grinch Stole Christmas versus Scrooged.

Uh, Scrooged.

Okay. The Holiday versus Santa Clause 2. The Santa Clause 2, Tim Allen.

The Santa Clause 2.

Okay.

The Holiday is the Jennifer Aniston movie, right?

No, it's Kate Winslet, Jude Law. I can't remember.

Oh, it's the, it's the one where she's alone and she gets fancy.

They, like, switch the holidays and he, she, uh, yeah, they go, they go-

I-

... on the holiday separately and then she meets-

I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I gotta go, I gotta go back to The Holiday.

Oh, man.

Yeah.

Good movie.

I, I didn't know what movie it was, but it's always one I... Dude, like I said, I'm sappy.

Okay.

I lo- I love a good love movie.

Santa Clause-

A little romance

... The Santa Clause 3-

Okay

... or Home Alone?

Home Alone.

Yeah.

Come on.

Uh, these are randomized. All right.

Okay.

Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer or Trading Places?

Rudolph. What is Trading Places? How is that a Christmas movie?

It, it's, it's set at Christmas.

Okay.

That's fine if you don't think it's a Christmas movie. I, I, I gave you the option to toss them out if it's not a Christmas movie. All right.

And Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer is, like, the claymation version, right?

Yes, yes.

Yeah. Okay.

Okay.

Yeah.

Uh, next one. Home Alone 2 or Jingle All the Way?

Home Alone 2.

Oh. It's probably a good call.

You'd go Jingle All the Way?

No, I'd probably go Home Alone 2.

Okay.

But I love Jingle All the Way, not because of the movie itself, but because every time I hear those words, I think about Conan O'Brien.

Oh.

Uh, you remember when he used to have Arnold Schwarzenegger on the TV behind him, and the guy was talking through his mouth?

Yes.

And he would always be like, "Come see my holiday classic, Jingle All the Way." So I s-

So, so Home, Home Alone 2-

... burned in my head, in my head

... Home Alone 2, in my opinion, is not as good as Home Alone 1, but the scene where he has, um, that he's in the hotel, in the hotel scene, like, yeah, I don't know, that's, that's, that's pretty cool. Like, I always want- as a kid, wanted to go do, like, a New York hotel for-

Oh, just by yourself?

... Christmas. Yeah.

Yeah, with your dad's credit card.

Not by myself, just chomp, chomp. Yeah, just, yeah, go through it.

Another movie that couldn't be made today because technology-

No

... has advanced too much. All right. Uh, next round. Miracle on 34th Street or the new Grinch movie with Benedict Cumberbatch.

I don't think I've seen the new Grinch movie. I'm not a big fan of Miracle on 34th Street.

Okay.

So I'm gonna have to go with the new Grinch movie that I haven't seen.

Even though you haven't seen it. Okay. Ni- The Nightmare Before Christmas or The Polar Express?

The Polar Express.

Okay.

Yeah, I would say The Polar Express is, like, a kids movie that has really hit the newest generation of kids hard, mainly 'cause you can go ride a train and do The Polar Express stuff.

That's true, which I dodged the bullet this year on that one. Okay.

Yeah.

This one could be tough. Elf versus Die Hard.Man, this is not even fair Like, I can't eliminate one of these in the first round.

Oh, Elf.

Yeah.

I'm sorry.

I-

It's gotta be Elf

... I agree. All right.

I mean, Elf is gonna be a contender for the greatest Christmas movie of all time.

Okay. The original Santa Clause-

Okay

... so the Santa Clause number one-

Yeah

... or the Charlie Brown Christmas Special?

Didn't we just debate this Charlie Brown thing the other day, where you said that-

Mm

... your wife doesn't like Charlie Brown?

We did, yes.

Okay. Um, I'm gonna have to go with Charlie Brown.

Okay.

Yeah.

I can res-

I'm not a big fan of the Santa Clause movies, but I do like the Netflix version of the Santa Clauses.

Yeah, you mentioned it, but I haven't been able to find it yet.

Yeah.

So you're gonna have to-

It's, it's just, it's just a cute thing to watch with kids.

Okay. The Muppet Christmas Carol or A Christmas Story?

A Christmas Story.

Okay.

Yeah.

That was obvious.

Yeah.

All right, final pairing for this round.

And if somebody doesn't pick A Christmas Story on that one, like, what is wrong with you? Are you even American?

I agree.

I just had to say that.

Okay.

Go ahead.

Another movie that my wife-

The lamp with the leg

... absolutely hates.

That the dad was so excited about. Yeah.

So I w- this is the only day of the year, is Christmas, when I get to, I just assert sort of semi-executive privilege.

Uh-huh.

And we have the, A Christmas Story on the TV on the TBS rotation the entire-

Oh, yeah

... day, and I just don't even care that I'm gonna sleep on the couch that night.

It's, it's not gonna win the greatest one for me, but it is, it is a great Christmas movie.

Okay.

Here we go.

The last pairing. Bad Santa or the recent Netflix movie with Will Ferrell and I think Ryan Reynolds called Spirited?

Oh, f- Bad Santa.

Okay. That movie was actually-

That's-

... it was actually pretty funny, but if I remember correctly.

Bad Santa or Spirited?

Sp- the Spirited movie.

Okay.

Okay. Now we are on to r-

But Bad Santa w- Bad Santa was hilarious.

Yeah, it was.

Yeah.

Okay, we're onto round two. Are you ready?

Okay. Yes.

Love Actually versus Christmas Vacation.

Uh, Christmas Vacation.

Okay. Scrooged versus The Holiday.

The Holiday.

Oh my gosh.

It's a great movie-

Okay

... man.

Home Alone versus-

She meets the daughter at the hou- you know, like, she goes to his house and he has a daughter, and then, you know. You don't, y- you remember this movie?

It's just too sappy. Uh, I do-

It's so good

... I do remember it.

It's so sweet. Like, it's, if you don't, if you don't shed a tear the first time you watch that movie, are you even human?

Well, it's not Rudy, so I will not be shedding a tear.

Okay. That's the only movie you ever cried in, is Rudy?

Uh, I generally will tear up with any kind of sports movie where there's like-

A Cry in the Dark

... an underdog.

I watched The Greatest. Have you seen The Greatest? It's on Netflix, I think.

No.

It's about a guy who played offensive line at Arkansas, but died in a car accident before he got drafted.

That's, that's unfortunate.

Yeah.

Okay, uh, here we go. Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer.

I just ruined the movie for half of you, by the way. Sorry, guys.

#spoileralert. All right.

Spoiler.

Home Alone versus Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer.

Oh, Home Alone.

Yeah. Uh, Home Alone 2 versus The New Grinch.

Home Alone 2.

Yeah, 'cause you haven't seen The New Grinch. Polar Express versus Elf.

Elf.

Okay. Oh, all right, I'm gonna have to stick three of them in here because I actually should have done 28. Uh, Charlie Brown, Christmas Story. I'm gonna give Bad Santa a... Actually, you know what? I'm gonna give A Christmas Story a bye here, and we're gonna go-

Okay

... Charlie Brown versus Bad Santa.

Uh, Charlie Brown.

Okay. Round three. Christmas Vacation-

It's, and it, it... Sorry, go ahead.

No, yeah, go ahead.

No, I'm just gonna say the reason I go Charlie Brown there is because it's just nostalgic Christmas.

Yeah.

It's just like the giant pumpkin-

Really, it's the only-

... it is nostalgic

... Christmas movie we have on this list that actually talks about Christmas. And not just the sort of commercialized version.

Yes.

Okay.

That's true.

Christmas Vacation versus The Holiday.

Christmas Vacation.

Obviously, yes.

Yeah.

Uh, I concur.

You were gonna, you were gonna, you were gonna kill me off as your friend if I went with The Holiday on that one.

Yes. Okay, uh-

You were gonna take my man card

... based on your previous answers, I'm going to assume Home Alone will beat Home Alone 2.

Home Alone will beat Home Alone 2.

Okay. Uh, oh, man. Okay. This is, this is actually, like, the hardest bracket down here. We-

Okay

... we still have three. Do you want me to just... No, I'm, I'm gonna give a bye to, uh, A Christmas Story again.

Okay.

And we're gonna do Elf versus Charlie Brown.

Elf.

Okay. We are down to the final four.

Okay.

Home Alone versus Christmas Vacation.

Christmas Vacation.

Elf versus A Christmas Story. I know you're gonna pick Elf on that one.

I'm gonna go Elf on that one.

All right.

Well, you would, you would pick-

A Christmas Story

... Christmas Vacation?

No, A Christmas Story.

Okay, A Christmas Story.

Okay.

Yeah.

Here we are.

Yes. Da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da.

The final round. Will it be Christmas Vacation or-

Does anybody understand that reference I just made there?

What? I don't... What?

Drum roll, please. The reference I just made there with my drum roll. Do you know what I just referenced?

No. And also-

Okay, awesome

... you asked-

Ask me the, ask me the two movies

... you asked our leaders-

Down to the final two

... or listeners if they got that reference, and I don't know if you know this, but this is an asynchronous media format, so they can't actually answer you. Uh, what was that-

First off, you'll have to explain to me what asynchronous means when we get done with this podcast.

It means it's not happening at the same time.

I, I got it. Thank you. Yes. We just talked about my grades versus your grades. Your grades were much better than my grades. So...

Uh, okay. What was the reference then? I, I didn't get it.

Oh, come on. If you're a, if it, it... I wanna know what you're gonna pick in these last two then. If you don't know that reference, then you're clearly picking one movie or the other here.

Is that, is it from Elf?

No. It's from Christmas Vacation.

When?

When he's doing the lights.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

He's plugging them in.

Okay, okay. Yes, I gotcha. Okay, sorry. That-

He, like, stops and he goes, "Drum roll, please."

Yes. Uh, okay. I feel less than for not picking that up, but yeah. Okay, so, uh, what is your choice then?

Oh, this is so hard.You're my dad. Elf, baby. I gotta go Elf over Christmas Vacation.

Wow.

I'm sorry. I know you're gonna go Christmas Vacation. I-

Wow.

And, and here's the deal. I have recently watched both of them. I introduced my kids to Christmas Vacation. By the way-

Ooh, the-

... the TV version much better than the- ... than Netflix or... Oh, sorry, I- Max actually has all of the Christmas movies, like the top 10 Christmas movies on Max right now. Um, which is, by the way, HBO. I don't know why they named it Max. HBO to me was always-

I agree. I will not call it that.

I won't. It's H- It's HBO.

I won't call Twitter X, I won't call HBO's streaming service Max.

Yeah.

I just won't.

It just, it's, it's bothersome. Anyways, um, well, so we got to watch both, and man, I gotta go with Elf. Elf is the way to go. It's such a... Will Ferrell is so good in that movie. He's so good. Sorry.

I'm just looking at this list here. I think that you got a lot of good, a lot of good choices. I'm just surprised that The Holiday made it to round three.

Well, The Holiday made it to round three, let's be honest, because, uh, Die Hard did not make it past Elf.

Yeah, but you picked it over Scrooge.

If you're not giving me... I picked... Whatever, Scrooge.

You picked The Holiday over Bill Murray.

Yeah, 100%.

Yeah.

That is a good Bill Murray movie, by the way.

Oh, man. Well, there you have it, folks.

It's just got a creepy elf.

Uh, if you disagree with Patrick on any of those choices, please feel free to write to us or comment on our LinkedIn, where Patrick will probably, hopefully post a link to this podcast this time.

Maybe. I don't think I posted it last time.

Maybe he'll remember this time.

Whoops.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

So, uh, please vehemently disagree with his choice of The Holiday, and, uh, if you have your own favorite Christmas movie, you can share that as well. We're just really trying to push for engagement here, just shameless pushes for engagement. So, um, so there you have it.

We just wanna know.

That's how we're gonna end the year.

We just wanna know. We just wanna know that somebody out there is listening to us.

Well, we know, 'cause we have the analytics, but, um, we don't know who. So, uh, anyway, Patrick, this is gonna be our last one. We've been doing this every two weeks. We've been getting a lot more consistent with it, but we are gonna have a hiatus between Christmas and, and New Year's. Is that correct?

Yes, that's correct.

Okay.

Yes.

Okay. Even though it's my favorite week to work.

We will, we will podcast again, I believe, on January 10th is our next, uh, podcast. Um-

Oh, that's gonna be s- that's gonna be potentially an amazing podcast.

It could be pretty awesome. Uh, I'm actually speaking at an event that day, so we'll probably have to do it a little earlier or later in the afternoon, but, uh, yeah. So-

Is that a, is it a public event?

It is. It's a public event. I'm speaking at the East Parker County Chamber of Commerce event with the North Texas Commission, some folks from Aledo ISD, talking about growth, and, um, I believe we have a representative of the real estate industry that will be on that panel as well.

Okay.

So.

So if you are interested-

Should be fun

... in growth in East Parker County, you should definitely join.

The sixth fastest, the sixth fastest growing county in the nation.

In the nation?

Growing by 22 people... In the nation. Growing by 22 people a day.

Wow.

So yeah, it's kind of a wild spot to live right now.

And they're all shopping at the HEB.

Hey. Now, everybody, please build two more HEB stores in Parker County. Please, I beg you. So, um, but yeah, it's a, it's a wild spot right now, so I'm, I'm going to show my face in public, which happens very rarely, and, uh, you know, I guess I'll have to put a suit on. Not really. I'll wear jeans and boots.

No, I don't wear s-

Yeah.

I, I, I wear a suit once a year. It's to my wife's, um, like, Christmas party thing. It's always kind of informal.

It's 47 degrees out right now. It's 47 degrees out right now, and I will be wearing my, uh, golf shorts to Chipotle for lunch today, so.

This i- is one benefit of car-centric development, is that you can manage to wear shorts when it gets really cold, because the distance between the house and the car, and the car and the store, is not that, not that great, so.

Correct. Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah. But all right. Cool, man. Well, Happy New Year. Merry Christmas. This is-

Happy Hanukkah

... an exciting time of year. Happy Hanukkah.

Which I think started a couple days ago.

It did, and we are, I mean, kinda ready to hit the slowdown. I mean, next week, you know, I know that cities are still, quote unquote, working, but-

We know the truth

... next week kinda starts the slowdown-

We've all been there

... in December. We've all been there. Uh, but I, I hope you're enjoying your, uh, Christmas and holiday parties, and I hope that you are drinking some hot cocoa. It actually feels a little Christmassy outside. It's a little cooler outside today, so.

I will say this season has gone by so quickly that I, I haven't fully gotten into the Christmas spirit yet.

Okay.

Um, which has been kind of weird, 'cause it's been easier with, with the kids, 'cause they get so excited about everything, but this year it's just felt a little bit second. I don't know why.

Okay, so I have to ask one question before we leave, 'cause I had a conversation this morning with our Canadian employee, who's now an American, Doug, and I, I have to say, he's making chili today, and I asked him if he was making cornbread, and his answer was no. Do you find that to be un-American?

Okay, so let me tell you what I do with cornbread.

Okay.

Because I don't really like cornbread. So what I will do is I will crumble it up, and I will put it into my chili.

Okay, that's a, that's a 100% acceptable thing to do with cornbread, but how do you make cornbread? That's the question. Do you use a cast iron skillet for cornbread making?

Yeah, but I make it with the, the little bag that you just open and you put-

Yeah. Yeah, yeah

... to a... Like, I don't make it from scratch. But yeah, we'll put it-

It's like 39 cents.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

So-

Speaking of chili though-

So let me, let me give my holiday cornbread recipe real quick.

Okay.

Hold on. Take half a stick, it's a lot of butter, half a stick of sweet salted cream butter, take your cast iron skillet, put the stick in there, put it in the oven at whatever temperature you cook your cornbread at-Take it out of the oven once the butter is fully melted, then put your cornbread butter in.

Better.

Right. Then cook it again. Oh, the buttery sweetness of that cornbread is tremendous. It's like dessert and cornbread all at once. Happy holidays, folks.

Do you put beans-

This time of year, I love chili.

Do you, uh, are you a beans in the chili?

We do. We do put beans in our chili.

So here's my thought on the beans argument.

Mm-hmm.

Chili is basically like, it's like a stew, right? It's, it's like a thick-

Right

... hearty soup.

Mm-hmm.

I don't care if you put anything. You could put everything in the chili, and it's still chili to me. I have never understood why, uh, especially for people who are, like, I don't know what you would call them, but they're just very strict on their definition of chili. They'll always say that Texas chili doesn't have beans. But to me, like, everything is bigger in Texas, right? Everything is, is bigger, and so therefore you should put more stuff in your chili. But to me it's always seemed like a natural thing that you would put beans. You could put jalapenos. You could put, I don't care, whatever you want.

Yeah.

It's your chili.

I love a spicy chili. I love a chili with, like, a fresh chopped jalapeno in it, right?

Mm-hmm.

Like, it's just, I mean, that's, ooh.

But how do you, how do you prep it once you, once you've cooked it?

Mm-hmm.

You put it in the bowl. What is your routine?

Um-

Do you have a routine?

... sharp cheddar ch- sharp cheddar cheese.

Shredded or blocked? Like-

Shredded.

Okay.

Yeah, sharp cheddar cheese. I d- actually do have a buddy who likes to take, like, a slice of cheese, and he likes to eat it like a cracker.

Okay.

Right? Which is cool, too, but to each their own. Uh, no, I like it shredded in the middle of the bowl, and it has to have green onions.

Okay.

Like, green onions bring so much to the table. It's like Missy Elliott. Anybody get that reference?

Again, with the asking- ... the listeners. Um, okay. So, uh, so my routine is I'll crumble up my cornbread at the bottom of the bowl.

Oh.

I take a, a good dollop of Daisy sour cream, and then I will sprinkle some shredded cheese over, over that mixture. Then I s- scoop in all of my chili. Then I take my, uh, like, block of cheese, like the, you know, cheddar that's in a block. I'll cut off a couple of strips, stick that on top. When that melts, it's just like this gooey strip of cheese, and it is just so good. Like you-

Did you say you, you, so you're a sour cream and chili guy?

Oh, yeah.

Okay. Interesting.

And if, if it wasn't-

We gotta wrap, we gotta wrap this up. We could go, like, 30 more minutes on this chili conversation. But next time on ZacCast, we're gonna get into chili details.

Yes.

And beef stroganoff. Mushrooms or no mushrooms?

You have strong thoughts-

That's all I got

... on that, too?

I do. Very strong thoughts on beef stroganoff. So-

Well, we'll save that, then, for the next, the next installment.

Yes. Yes, 100%. Well, hey, Chad, merry Christmas, man.

Merry Christmas.

Happy New Year. Yes, it's very exciting.

Hook 'em Horns.

Great time of year. And Texas is gonna win. I'm gonna go ahead and say that for the record. The first game is going to be won by Texas. We should have a podcast before the national championship game, though, right?

No, if it's the 10th, it'll be after.

We may have to do a podcast beginning of January-

We'll see

... just to get our predictions in.

I'm being a little bit more vocal since we made it, but I am also trying to keep my general MO over the past couple of years of just letting things happen and not being too cocky about stuff. So I know you think I'm being-

It's-

... a lot more cocky, but this is all just relative, because over the past five years-

Has anybody-

... I have been extremely reserved.

Okay, I'll make this prediction. Texas is gonna beat, uh, Washington, right? If Michigan somehow beats Alabama-

Mm-hmm

... I think Texas beats Michigan. If Alabama beats Michigan, Texas loses in a national championship game.

In a close one or in a blowout?

Probably 21 points. It could be, it could be pretty substantial. I, I've, y- I mean, you're talking about Nick Saban losing to the same team twice in one year.

Mm-hmm.

I'm not even sure that's ever happened.

I'm not sure it is either.

Right? Yeah, and I mean, just, the guy's a Hall of Fame coach, man, and I know, I know Sark worked for him, but the reality is, is, like, I, I think if you have to face Alabama again, you're in trouble. Michigan's got a shot against Alabama, though. I don't want people to think that they don't. I think they do.

Yeah, I, honestly, I-

'Cause Alabama gets themself in trouble

... I wanted to get in at number four because I thought we paired up pretty well against Michigan, so I am pulling for them for two reasons. One, 'cause I think it's a better matchup, but also because it would be pretty cool to have beaten all of the other three teams. But we actually play Michigan in the second week of next year in Ann Arbor.

Okay.

So.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

Okay. Is that your first year in the SEC next year?

Yeah.

Have they set the schedule? When do we play y'all?

Uh, Thanksgiving, I'm pretty sure. They release all the-

At?

At Kyle Field.

At College Station?

Yeah.

On, on Ky- on Thanksgiving?

No, probably, I think it's scheduled on Saturday, but they'll probably move it to Sat- to Friday.

Okay. Phew. So fun. It's gonna be great. So we gonna go-

I hope y'all have a team, man.

Are you gonna go sit in on the junior college next year?

We got, like, 17 people in the portal right now. I hope y'all have enough players.

17 in the portal. Well, there's gonna be plenty of guys that are gonna come to A&M from the portal. We'll be fine.

Also, I can't believe my... Last thing, absolutely last thing, I cannot believe my portal joke went completely unremarked on.

It didn't need a remark. It wasn't even funny.

It was. You had 11 people in the portal, and I said, "Oh, no, what's gonna happen when the next one goes?"

When the 12th man gets there.

When the 12th man.

Yes. I, I read the joke. It just wasn't funny. So just, just wait. Just wait for next year, my friend.

Just wait.

Just wait. Yes, so.

All right, with that-

Uh, anyways

... you will have to wait for us until next year as well. So thank you everyone for listening. That was a pretty good segue.

It was.

Merry Christmas. Happy holidays. We'll see ya.

All right, see ya.