Greetings and welcome back to ZacCast, the official podcast for local government nerdery of all shapes and sizes. Uh, speaking of all shapes and sizes, I'm Chad, and that is Pat. How you doing, buddy?

I'm good. I'm a little bigger than Chad is. A little rounder, a little taller.

And just starting off the day, uh, in a feisty mood. So, um, do you wanna go ahead and get it out of your system?

Sure. Why am, why am I currently wearing this A&M shirt? Which by the way, we had a, uh, we had a training session for Zach today, uh, where we had a, a lot of our clients on there, and I made sure that everybody understood that A&M Baseball beat Texas last night. It was just another midweek game for y'all though, Chad. I mean, I don't know why, why it's such a big deal. It's just a midweek game.

The thing about baseball, which you know this because you follow baseball, is-

I do

... anything can happen in a game, right? That's why they play so many of them.

That, that is true, but hold on. There has been a lot of anything-can-happens to Texas in the last week and a half. Let's just point that out. The run with Texas Tech, not so great. The run with Charleston College, not so great. It's, it's, it's been a little rough for the number eight team in the nation.

Okay. So now with that out of your system, let's get to the actual things that people care about-

Yes

... uh, rather than the increasing your win percentage from 35.2% to 35.3% against Texas. So the first up today, we're gonna do kind of a lightning round, uh, 'cause there's a h- handful of things that we kind of were interested in, but none of them are, like, a full pod topic. So, uh, we're gonna kinda hit a handful of things. I think we've done this before where, like, I throw out a topic and then you throw out a topic, and we just kind of chat about it for a few minutes, and then, uh, and then move on. So up first, an article in Bloomberg Opinion, American consumers are starting to hit their breaking point. Uh, so this article talks about a consumer sentiment study that the University of Michigan puts out, uh, which shows that consumer sentiment right now is at its lowest point in about 11 years. Um, couple this with, you know, inflation with, uh, interest rate increases, um, concerns about... Essentially this article kinda says that the, all the profligate COVID spending that people went through, uh, you know, as they, uh, kinda grew their savings and then started spending that money, it's probably coming to an end. And, uh, especially with inflation being so high, consumers are starting to scale back how much money they're spending. So Patrick, we talked about this on the last episode, all signs are kinda pointing to, uh, slower economic growth if not recession. Has your thought process changed on that at all in the last few weeks?

No, I think, I think this is just another example of information that's coming in. Uh, o- one of the most surprising things here to me was that, um, you know, pre-COVID consumer sentiment was higher than it even was mid 2021, which I think a lot of people looked at that as like a, mid 2021, so, like, March through really, like, the summer of '21 would be the better way to look at it. But a lot of people looked at that period of time like there was just a lot of elasticity within spending, uh, for people. But the consumer sentiment was really not near as strong as it was prior to COVID in 2020. Now we're seeing, um, a consumer sentiment measure that's dropping almost another 30 points from, from that 2021 number, and, um, that's a, that's a pretty significant drop. I think what we talked about last month is, especially with energy costs and the Ukrainian conflict, but energy costs specifically, when, when energy costs exceeds 4.5% of the just normal American budget, consumer spending pulls back and confidence pulls back, and I think that's what we're seeing, right? So the question is: How long are the prolonged energy prices going to continue? We've seen some drop in that, uh, but it's still, you know, it's still costing $125 to fill up a, a, a big truck, right, or a vehicle in Texas. So it's just a... It's really interesting to see, uh, a good measure of that is, is you know, gas pumps used to stop you at $100 and now they let you go to 125 or 150, right? So, uh, I think what we're seeing right now is people are spending a lot of money in other areas that are essential, and so they're just not gonna have confidence to spend money in, uh, consumer goods.

Pre-COVID, that index was it looks like about 98. The time period you're talking about mid 2021-

Yeah

... right? So this is, like, post vaccines, lots of places are starting to reopen, a lot of money has been pumped into the economy, all right? We had like a $400 billion output gap, and $2 trillion was pumped into the economy. That sentiment was about 86.

Mm-hmm.

Right now it's almost 55. That's a really marked shift in just in the past year or so, um, despite the fact-

Correct

... that we're sort of coming out of COVID. Um, that just really tells you the toll that inflation and all of these other indicators are kinda having on people's psyches. So-

And, and really started to st- yeah, started to stumble at the end of the 2021 summer, right? So really, like, the beginning of the school year, this school year that we're in right now, we started to see a pretty substantial tumble in the consumer index. So, uh, I have a topic to throw at you, um, that we discussed a little bit, but, uh, very interesting. Did you know that in Argentina in 1900s, early Argentina, there was a bachelor tax where a bachelor tax existed around 1900. Men who could prove that they had asked a woman to marry them and had been rebuffed were exempt from the tax. In 1900, this gave rise to the phenomenon of professional lady rejecters, women who for a fee would swear to the authorities that a man had proposed to them and they had refused. What do you think about this government policy of a bachelor tax?

Interestingly enough, I did know about thatBecause I s- sent it to you. Um, so-

That's correct, yes. You sent it to me

... so, so this came from a Twitter feed called Depths of Wikipedia, where they post extremely obscure Wikipedia articles, and if you actually click through and read it, it's not a new phenomenon. I mean, the earliest recorded one they have here is from Ancient Rome. You know, the idea is to encourage, um, marriage and family building. But yeah, the thing that was interesting to me is this, the incentives to create an industry around women who would claim that they had rejected a proposal. That's just so entrepreneurial, I have to give, I have to give a shout-out to it.

No, I, I get it. I get it.

Any time that we have, that we use tax policy to try to influence social behavior, there's always going to be people that find a way to take advantage of it, right? And this is just another example of it.

So there were some articles that came out last week talking about, uh, birthrates in the United States, right? And how those birthrates have dropped over the past couple of years pretty significantly.

Yes.

Do you think as a... Do, do you think the United States government does enough to encourage family planning?

Well, if you want my honest opinion, I don't really think that the federal government has a constitutional role in that. Leaving that aside, uh, I think that they do quite a bit, but I don't know how much of it is very effective. Um-

Are, are we, are we giving ourselves, like, substantial economic headwinds 10, 15, 20 years from now because our tax policies are not pro-family?

Well, I guess the question is should the tax policies be pro-family, or should there be other direct policies that are pro-family? So are you-

I mean, we, we've talked, we've talked about this, right? Because of all the different regulation that we have, right? So it's very difficult to have multiple kids, more than two kids, because the cost-

Yeah

... of having more than two kids is so substantial. Your, your, your vehicle is $30,000 or $40,000 more expensive in order to get the third or fourth row that you need, right? So, um-

Even I don't need four rows in my car, but yes, yeah, once you go past two kids-

And you do have a ton of kids, yes

... bec- uh, especially because of the car seat requirements, and those car seats are huge, like, I had to go from my crossover to my pickup because I couldn't fit... I couldn't even fit two car seats in my, my car. Um, and I really liked that-

Yep

... BMW. It was, it was nice. But, um, yeah.

Yeah, correct. Do you, do y'all still have the taken van, though?

We do still have the taken van.

Okay. So-

It very easily fits all four kids, but I don't like driving it. So fortunately, most of the time, I only have to pick up three of them for school or take three of them to school, so I can still take my truck. But yeah, um, I guess the question... So you, you asked two questions. One, are we heading towards some serious problems? And the answer, I think, is yes. I mean, if you look at even just Japan, South Korea, like, a lot of these countries that have rapidly declining birthrates, even China. Now, those birthrates declined because of policy, right?

Yeah.

Restricting the family size.

Correct, yes.

Um-

Yep

... but when we have a lot of systems in place in our economy, in our society that depend on sustained population growth, um, and if that starts to fall, then yeah, we're gonna be in some serious structural issues.

Well, I mean, one of the big things in the United States, though, is that we, we have empowered women significantly when it comes to the workforce, and, um, and women, to be fair, have empowered themselves as well. But you, you've got, uh, a lot of our colleges are higher percentages of women than men. You, you have a substantial amount of, uh, of women that are in the workforce that may, may have been stay-at-home parents at some point if they had chosen to. And we don't really do anything from a governmental standpoint to support those families or, or those individuals, um, allowing them to have both, right? It's very difficult to have that high-flying career and also be, um, you know, a, a parent, a father, a mom, and be able to handle all of that without somebody having some serious flexibility on their schedule one way or the other.

Sure.

I have a couple friends of mine that are stay-at-home dads that, that do it, where their, their wives are, you know, high-level executives. But even then, or if you, if you're not in that situation, really, you have to get to, you have to get to a tipping point where you can afford the childcare side, which is extremely, extremely difficult and expensive.

Yeah, childcare is, is... If you want decent childcare, it's very expensive. So part of the problem is not even just that we don't have policies that help women. Part of the problem is that we still have a society and some cultural issues that make it more difficult for women to be in the workforce. I mean, my wife is a very successful attorney, and she will constantly be, um, dealing with, with clients or with opposing attorneys who almost, I won't say look down, but assume that because she's a mom and because she has four kids, that she can't do her job or that, you know, she's not capable of doing the same kind of work that... Like, no one would treat her the... No one would treat a man in her role the way that she gets treated because she's a mom. And so it's not even just that there are policy gaps, which there are, um, but there's also a sort of... Like, w- we're still not quite at the point where we treat a woman in the workforce like we would treat a man. Like, you, you would never ask a man, like, "Where are your kids?" Like, you know, "What are you gonna do about your kids? You have to stay late for this meeting." And like, you just... Have you ever been asked that question? Like, I-

No.

I haven't. Um, but-

Yeah

... my wife fields stuff like that on a weekly basis. Um, and I'm sure that every other woman who's listening to this podcast who has a career has dealt with the same kinds of questions. Another part of the equation, though, is not even just having fewer kids, but having them later, which, I mean, I'm guilty of. Like, we didn't... I was 32 when we had our first kid. Nine years younger than my mom when I was born. And so-

Yeah

... so it- it's not even just a matter of having fewer kids, but stretching those generations out means that there's just fewer people around. Um, so, uh, may- maybe even just encouraging earlier, you know, child-rearing and family development would be a, a way to kind of aid in that gap. But it's hard, man. Like you said, daycare is expensive. And-

It's pricey. That's the problem is that the cost of having kids, the cost of supporting those kids is so much higher than it was when your parents or my parents had kids. And so, um, and some of that is regulatory. Um, you know, some, some of that is, like, there are people that don't believe you should leave a 10-year-old at home after school by themselves, right? I mean, there's just differences of opinion, where culturally, I don't know, I was probably left by myself at home when I was eight.

Yeah, probably.

Yeah. It's just different. I mean, and, and, and that is ultimately all of those things we just talked about are impacting how many kids people are having and the birth rate, um, throughout the United States. And in 10 to 15 years from now, we're gonna, we're gonna see a substantial impact because of that. So just, just interesting topic. All right, man, your turn. What's, what's the next topic?

Okay. Over the past couple of weeks, I've come across a handful of articles and podcasts and things like that about the housing issues that we're having. Um, an interesting one that we're not talking about now but I will link to is, uh, a, a podcast where they had two people on either side of the premise that, that cities are past their prime. Um, and I think that will warrant maybe a larger discussion, 'cause there were some interesting things that they talked about. But one of the advocates that said, yes, cities are past their prime, her f- main focus was on housing, and so that kind of put that in my mind. But there's an article by a guy who, not someone that I really agree with, uh, on most things, but his, his argument here is that California should solve its housing crisis by building new cities. So beforehand we, you know, we kinda just went back and forth on this. It is a terrible idea for a lot of reasons. Um, but the one thing that I found interesting, and you can talk about whatever, you know, aspect you want, but the one thing that I found interesting is, you know, we talk a lot about development styles and the fiscal impacts of those developments and, uh, and things like that. And, and honestly, I'm kinda coming around to the view that the Strong Towns approach is s- is almost a sort of grand unified theory. You familiar with grand unified theories?

Yes.

Okay. So basically-

You wanna explain it though to-

... it's like the one thing-

... to the, uh, listeners? Yeah

... it's, it's just like the one thing that kind of explains everything. And I'm, I'm not a fan of, like, monocausal explanations of things, but when you start to see all the different pieces that the development patterns that we have impact from policing to financial, uh, security to, um, you know, public safety and public health, and all of these things that our development style kind of impacts, that message has not really seemed to move over into the housing side very much. Because if it did, you wouldn't really get a proposal to build a whole new city just, just to have cheaper housing, right? Because of all of the costs that come with running a city. And w- you know, we already can't afford it, so we're basically... Uh, to do this would basically just be doubling down on, or, like, making up a loss in volume. So like, yeah, it could probably... Say you built a brand-new city, and you could add, you know, 20,000 people into it with inexpensive homes. Well, that's great. You could probably lower the house, the cost of housing, uh, a little bit. But now you have all this other cost that is going to come due, you know, down the road.

You know, look, I mean, just trying to build... Making, making housing more affordable by trying to build a new city is just a, it's just a terrible idea in general. It's, uh, ul- ultimately affordable housing advocates, and I- I'm gonna pick on California for a minute. Texas is a little different of a state. Because in Texas, it's a property right state. There's very little anybody can do to stop development from occurring in Texas, as long as it kinda meets some thresholds. Um, especially if that property is located outside of a city limit, um, even if it's in an ETJ or, or in the county as, uh, in general. But where a lot of these conversations come from are not necessarily like in the Dallas-Fort Worth area or the Houston area, maybe a little bit in the Austin area, but even then you can just kinda move further out and you can find some more affordable housing. Um, it really is coming out of the California market, and specifically, like Silicon Valley. What's interesting about that is you have these groups, these very organized groups that are pushing hard for affordable housing, yet those very same people that support those groups are against any type of, you know, strong Townsian redevelopment activities, right? Just, I mean... And, and you can read up on this article after article, but the reality is, is it's, "Hey, we need to put in some multifamily so that we can have some affordable housing here for folks." And there's always just kind of this comment that comes out of the community at that point, which is, "Well, I just don't think that's the right spot for that." It's-

Yeah, it should always be somewhere further away from me.

It should always be somewhere further away from me, right?

Yeah.

Even, even though I support the ability of people to be able to get into affordable housing, and I think they should be able to live in my community-That's not really the right spot for them to live in.

Yeah. So-

So-

So I have, I have two quick, uh, examples of this. Um, several years ago, there was a housing project in Fort Worth that was gonna be moved, and the residents were gonna need to be relocated. And there was a proposal for, uh, a new spot that was maybe 10, 15 miles from my neighborhood, and m- my neighbors were apoplectic. They're like, "This is the worst thing that could ever happen," basically. And it's like, guys, first of all, it's far enough away that it's not going to actually affect you. Um, and two, like someone ... In this case it was a c- a city project, but, or like, you know, through the housing authority. But like if someone wants to sell their land for this use, like that's their, that's their property, right? Like, they have the ability to do that, right? So, um, I even, I even had one of them tell me, "Well, if you like it so much, why don't you invite them to come stay in your pool?" And I was like, "I, I need to find a way to actually make that happen." Um, and-

No, you know, my, my state- my statement on that though would be is that it's, it's the artificial lack of housing mix that causes a problem. Had you had that housing mix to begin with, had you had a planned approach to that housing mix, it wouldn't have been an issue.

Well, is it a-

Right

... planned approach, or is it the planning that causes it not to happen? I mean, I ... This is one thing, reason why I really like city politics and government so much is because the, like, traditional partisan divides don't mean anything.

Mm.

Um, but the, there is kind of a chicken and egg question because the way that we plan restricts the type of development that can be done in any given location, right? And so how do you have a development like that when it's w- so much of your land is devo- d- is zoned for just straight up single family residential?

It's a very simple economic question though, right? If you're gonna build a community, let's just say you're building it from scratch, you're playing SimCity. You build a retail area, a power center, and all you have is, you know, high-end white collar homes. How in the world are you gonna have employees for that power center?

No, no, I understand that.

Where are they gonna live?

But the, the problem with using SimCity as the argument is that SimCity has various assumptions baked into it that are based on the way that we develop here in America, right? Like-

True

... it is essentially, it's not like a totally organic, um, artificial intelligence. It is based on a set of parameters about how you zone, and where you zone, and how you plan things, and where you put things that are just, they come from the way that we've done it for the past 75 years.

Okay.

If you ... Now i- just imagine a scenario where you just totally let the market dictate what got built where, okay? So like the, the idea of-

Houston. Houston, Texas

... the idea of, um, zoning to protect property values and things like that just wasn't there at all, and if you bought, uh, uh, a lot next to my house, you could build a factory on it if you wanted to. Like, just, just take that as a premise, okay? Ignoring all-

Okay

... of the downsides. Um, and, and you had a truly functioning market for development. In that scenario, you could have a much greater, uh, mix of uses and demographics and things like that. Um, but once you start to pick and choose where certain things can be built, necessarily you're going to be restricting that, that diversity. I'm not saying that is totally a bad thing or a bad thing at all. I'm just saying that that's just a natural c- outcome of restricting the types of development that could occur.

Okay. I mean, so at the end of the day though, the, the, the conversation really is how do we get more affordable housing on the ground, right? And how do we do it in a way that's sustainable for cities? Because going in and building just, you know, multitudes of track home communities probably ain't gonna do it from a financial standpoint.

No, it's not. And especially the way that they do it, you end up causing major traffic problems, which I'm dealing with right now.

Correct.

Um, but also there are-

You, you have a great area over there, yeah.

But there are, there are other models that are being developed very near to where I live where there's just floods of apartments that are just, like, on the backside of large retail power centers, and they're still too far away for most people to, like, walk to get groceries or walk to dinner, right? You're, they're still driving to get there. So yeah, you're fitting more people in, and you can probably, uh, provide different price points. But it's still not, like, a cohesive community, um, and it doesn't really solve any problems with the traffic. It probably exacerbates them. And all the other people who don't live in that area are still having to drive to those centers for the various retail outlets. So I don't know if that's really a, a great solution either.

Yeah, I mean, look, I, I, I think this is a topic of conversation that, that really could extend way past just one podcast. But the reality is is that what, what we really need to do is have a serious discussion about housing. And it's not about tax credit housing or Section 8 housing or ... Anyway, I, I'm, I'm specifically referencing housing that people who are employed at a average median household income can afford. The market has gotten so hot so fast, specifically where we are in, in Texas, and most of the markets in Texas, that if folks who lived in their house right now tried to go buy another house of like kind, they would not be able to afford it at their existing wage. That's how fast the rise in price has been. The rental market has been even worse. The rental market has seen increases, uh, that are substantial. There, there, most people-Um, where I live are renting apartments that cost them more, significantly more than my mortgage does every month. And so it's just there, there seems to be this imbalance in the market. Um, and a lot of it has to do with there's just not the availability there. It's a supply and demand conversation. Um, we're still not at the level of housing starts that we used to be. Um, and, and some of that is-

Housing starts are way down.

Yeah. Housing starts are way down. Um, and, and some of that though is also governmental. Some of that is cities really strongly reevaluating their development methods, and those development method reevaluations are having an impact on overall housing starts because it's... You just can't find lots. Lots are gold. I mean, it's, it- it's just really that simple. Um, and-

Well, maybe interest rate increases will help push down the prices of, of, uh, home purchases a little bit.

I think it will. Will it though? I mean, here's the thing. It'll push down demand, right? But isn't demand so high that demand probably could afford to be pushed down a little bit? It's just a, it's a, it's a wackadoodle market right now. Um, don't have a great solution for it. But I, I would say there, there needs to be a conversation. The hardest part is, is that a lot of times the same advocates who want these things are also the same people who say, "Well, that's not the right lo- location."

Yeah. So my-

That's, that's my concern

... so my second point real quick, and then I'll let you throw out your topic. Um, there was a golf course about thr- three or four miles from the house, right? Uh, to- I went there once in about the 10 years that it was in existence. Um, it wasn't a great golf course, didn't get heavily used, and when it got sold-

This is Windy Springs?

No. I don't even know what it's called.

Okay. Sorry. Go ahead.

Maybe it... I don't even remember. It's been so long. Um, so it got sold, and it was gonna get redeveloped into a single family neighborhood, and of course everyone threw a fit, right, because-

Uh-huh. There was green space

... traffic was gonna be awful and, well, you know. Yeah, I guess there was green space.

Yeah. There was green space.

Um, but, you know, there's gonna be lots of traffic and all this other stuff and, uh, you know, these houses are gonna be at a, the same value level, whatever, ya- ya- ya, all the same arguments that people make against new developments. Um, but m- my argument was, like, if, if you love that golf course so much, why didn't you go play at it enough where it would stay in business? Or you could have bought it, the property, and done what you wanted to do with it. You know, no one's gonna actually do that. Anyway, okay, so your, um, your next topic, and then I have one final non- non-related topic.

Yeah. So my next topic is, uh, a city in the DFW metroplex that always gets put on a pedestal for a multitude of reasons.

Ah, I forgot where I was talking about this one.

One, they're a fantastic... Yeah. Um, fantastic revenue generation city. Um, development-wise, they're, they're one of the best. They do a very good job of it. They're in a great location. Um, but scandal has hit them, uh, in Grapevine. Grapevine has a sizable scandal between two ex-staff members, uh, department directors, right, who spent significant sums of money on personal purchases, and, um, the biggest thing, were not arrested for it. Your thoughts, Chad.

W- wasn't the total estimated... They couldn't actually calculate how much it was, but they, they estimated it over $200,000 between the two of them?

They did, yeah.

And-

And one was a little bit more sizable than the other.

Yeah. And it was travel and computers and, like, all kinds of stuff. Um-

Correct. One was the parks director, which l- let, let me, let me say Grapevine has an excellent parks department, right? I mean, uh, you look for a baseball facility in DFW to play at, Grapevine is the number one baseball facility in DFW. Uh, their parks are immaculate. They're gorgeous. They spend lots of money on them. They do lots of events. Um, and it's, it's a, it's a solid department. But wow, spending over $100,000 of city funds on personal purchases, travel, computers, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, Amazon accounts, I mean, all the above, I have to ask the question how does this happen for the length of period and time that it happened for and there not be a check or balance on it?

You could ask the city of Austin.

That's right, the library.

We, yeah, we wrote about that-

Remember the guy in the library with the toner?

... a few months ago. Um-

Yeah

... yeah, it, it is amazing. I mean, uh, especially at the director level. I mean, I guess maybe the question is, like, who's, who's reviewing their P cards? But, uh... And, and you probably have a certain level of trust, you know, at that, at that stage, um, that you kind of expect someone's gonna do their job in an honest way. But I, I mean, I guess they, they weren't arrested I guess 'cause they couldn't prove enough of it. Is that what the deal was?

No. I... They could prove quite a bit of it. I, I, I think it was they were both long-term employees. Um, the city manager of Grapevine got grilled by a city council over it. Um, they were both long-term employees, and I think, you know, in Texas, if you make an agreement for restitution, you really can't press charges. And so the city manager made an agreement for restitution from these employees. They resigned. They paid restitution for what could be proved by the city, and then therefore because of the restitution agreement, they, you know, the city was made whole in, in the view of law enforcement, so ther- therefore they weren't charged.

That's wild.

So it's, it's wild because it's, it's such a violation of public trust, you know, but it's, it's one of the... It, man, it just reeks of cronyism. I mean, it, it's... I've had employees that have, have done things, and I have fired them for it. Um-Man, I just, this is so sizable, I don't know how it wouldn't be criminal.

Yeah.

Um-

I also don't really know how it could have gone on for that long at that level and someone else not have been able to find it or see it or-

So that's ... Yeah, so that's the second half of the, of the question that I have is, uh, a lot of the reporting on this states that, uh, after the fact, Grapevine went in and redid all of their policies so that their reviews were different, so forth and so on. I have a really hard time with that because Grapevine's a big enough city obviously that they're getting audited every year. Your purchasing card policies are something that your auditor reviews with you and your administrative team every single year. Every year.

And they'll pull receipts and-

And if there's a deficiency... Say what? Yeah, they pull receipts, they, they make sure that you sign off on these reports. The financial control side always pulls P-card records, right? Almost... I, I, I don't think I ever had a year in my 15 where a P-card record wasn't pulled. Um-

I'm also gonna s- gonna say that at a city that big, it would probably be, for, for an independent auditor who is looking at multiple cities, it would probably be a little bit of a red flag that department directors are spending that much on their P-cards.

100%. Like, if you're just looking at numbers and, and, and going that route, yeah, a- absolutely. And, and then the other question is, uh, aren't they a big enough city where they should have an internal audit department who's looking at that as well, who's randomly auditing different departments and P-card statements and so forth and so on? There just seems to be like there is such an epic collapse of policy and following those policies and implementation of those policies that, um, I just, I just don't know at the end of the day how you have such a far collapse, especially at that department director level, at the, at the amount of money that was being spent. Um, it's, it's, yeah, it's wild for me and, uh, I thought I would bring that to your attention.

All right, so my final topic, after three years of delay, we finally... Actually, three years of delay, two hurricanes, a pandemic, and two extra children, we finally went on the Disney cruise a couple of weeks ago.

Oh.

So.

Yes. Tell us about this.

So, yeah, so I thought I would give a quick like two-minute review of the Disney cruise experience. I've never have been on a, and I have never been on a cruise before. Did not really know what to expect, uh, or if I was even gonna like it at all. Um, I will say one thing, flying with four children under the age of six, even- ... without the masks is a nightmare. Um-

Yeah. Oh, yeah

... so, so we flew into Orlando, spent like a day and a half there, and then drove to Cape Canaveral. Um, and have you... You've rented car seats, like with a rental car?

Oh, yeah. They're awful.

They're awful. They're like-

They're awful

... they're just terrible. So, so we brought-

Yeah

... three car seats, um, with us, and then our, our youngest is in one of those little convertible things, so, like, we could just take that with us.

Yeah.

So, so basically four car seats, suitcases for all of us, strollers, and kids, lugging those through, you know, left field through the Orlando Airport, what a disaster. Um, but the Disney cruise itself, the one thing is if, if you have kids and you wanna go on vacation, like you really can't beat Disney because everything is so geared towards the kids. Um-

Yeah. Oh, yeah

... it, it was nice that the cruise was at about half capacity. The only thing that they didn't have open was the, like, nursery for under one, uh, maybe it's under two years old. I don't know. But that, that was not open. But the kids' club was open, so, like, our kids would go off and, um, after dinner, after the show, they would go and play for like two hours. It's wonderful. Um, they have like Broadway style musicals, which I guess is not your thing, Patrick, but, um, you know, it was, it was, it was high quality. But the one thing that I wanted to talk about, aside from just saying, like, if, if you're gonna go on a cruise and you have kids, like I would recommend a Disney cruise 'cause they do a good job. One of the shows was Beauty and the Beast. You familiar with the story of Beauty and the Beast?

I, I'm familiar with the entire storyline of Beauty and the Beast, yes.

Okay. So the, the problem with Beauty and the Beast is that it's, it's, I mean, it's bestiality, right?

Mm-hmm.

Like, she falls in love with an animal. Like, it's a guy who's cursed, but he's still an animal, so it's kinda weird. So I've always kind of taken the view that the reason that she, like, stayed and, and put a good faith effort into falling in love with the Beast is because what she really wanted to do was help all of the servants who got caught up in his, you know, bad behavior and, and that kind of thing.

His, yeah, his anger and so forth.

In the musical version, which Jessica tells me that we saw, like, in the Dallas Summer Musicals a few years ago, but I don't remember it 'cause I feel like I would've remembered this. They, there's a massive retcon of this story where the, kind of like explaining why the Beast is the way he is, and, like, his mother loved him, and she died, and his dad was awful, and, like, kind of abused him. And, and the servants got caught up because they let this all happen, and yada, yada. Like this, this whole, like, contrived storyline just to try to make the original story more palatable because if you actually think about it, the original story is super weird. So it just kind of, kind of bothered me a little bit about... I mean, I don't think about Beauty and the Beast that much except that my daughter likes to wear her Belle dress. But whenever you do kinda think about it, it is kind of a weird story for kids to, to grow up with.

It's, it, it is, it is an odd one, but o- a lot of old Disney is, is, is odd, right? I mean, there's, there are other things within... I mean, Fantasia's pretty, pretty odd.

Fantasia. Well, Fantasia's meant to be like a-

Fantasia, sorry. That's why I said Fantasia.

Yeah. It's meant to be kind of like a-

Yeah

... fantastical musical experience.

Correct. But like even when you go to Disney World, like the old side of Disney, like some of the older rides are kinda creepy.

Like It's a Small World?

Oh, so creepy. That whole thing is so creepy, man. I've done that both at Disneyland and at Disney World, and at both places I was totally creeped out. So-

But-

It's just a, it's, you know... But, so you did like the Disney cruise? 'Cause I'm trying to decide whether we wanna do a Disney cruise or not.

So the thing about the Disney cruise is it's so much more expensive. Um-

Mm-hmm

... and, uh, my kids really liked it. I think we're considering, like we, we put a deposit down 'cause it's a refundable deposit, and if you do it when you're on the ship you get 10% off. Um, so-

Okay

... you know, so we, we put a deposit down on another one. Um, my wife is looking at some of the other ones that are, like, bigger names that are more, that a- that also have kind of kid-friendly stuff. I j- I don't know if I... I mean, part of the thing about being on a cruise is, like, you're stuck there. So, uh-

Yeah

... if you go to a bad hotel room, you could just leave, but if you go on a cruise that's kinda iffy, like you're stuck there-

Uh-huh

... for however long that cruise is. So-

Yeah

... when you pay the premium for Disney, like you know you're gonna get clean rooms, good staff. So one thing that was cool is that, uh, the way that they have it set up is, uh, you are on like a dining schedule, and your host or waiter follows you around to each meal. And they're really well-trained to, like, interact with your kids and get to know them. So like we had the same waitress for, like, all four meals, um-

Wow

... that we went to the, you know, into the restaurants for. Sorry, couldn't come up with that word. So that was really cool 'cause they get to know them and they like learn their names and what they like to drink and what they like to eat. So they kinda like bring the food out to them, you for them that they know that they're gonna want. Um, they do like-

Yeah

... magic tricks and all that kinda stuff. So, um, like you definitely pay a premium but you, you get a pretty good experience for it. I, I'm just really nervous now, like if I'm, am I gonna go on a cruise again that's not Disney and like not be able to stomach like something dirty in the room or like, you know, something gross, and then just be stuck there for three days or for five days or however long. That's my-

Which I, I, I've been on a car- I've been on a Carnival cruise when we were younger with, with friends of ours when we were in our early 20s. It was a little bit like that. It was like a party boat.

Yeah.

And, uh-

As I've gotten older my ability to, um, like my germaphobia has kind of, kind of increased, so.

No surprise there.

Yeah.

All right, last but not least, the, uh, and this is more of just do yourself a favor. Uh, do yourself a favor and go pull up the Plano City Council meeting, I believe it was like March 16th-ish, maybe March 15th, somewhere around there. There's a gentleman who gets on there and he has about a two-minute-and-20-second rap that, um, it's just, it's, it's the joy of local government and the public comment period. That's what it is. Please go watch it.

He fit it within-

It's amazing

... the three-minute window, right? Like they didn't let him go over?

He did. He fit it within the three minutes. They only gave him three minutes, so he did not get tased, uh, afterwards. And, uh, the rap is-

It's something.

It's something, yeah. I, I, I, I wouldn't give it any props, but it's something. Um, but that is your I can't believe I just watched that moment of the day.

Okay. Patrick, that was freewheeling and lots of fun. Um, as a parting gift to you, the new Top Gun comes out May 27th.

Yes.

Something, something that I learned last night, Jennifer Connelly plays Penny Benjamin. Yeah, that's a-

Really?

That's a, that is a deep cut on the original, uh, movie. So if you're a fan of the original movie you'll get that reference. And if not, I don't even know what to say to you. Go watch Top Gun.

So, uh-

All right.

Yes.

So, uh, oh, oh, go ahead.

Penny, Penny Benjamin, Penny Benjamin was, was the admiral's daughter, right?

The admiral's daughter that Maverick goes ballistic with.

Yeah, but you never meet her though in-

You never meet her

... the original movie. She, she was just brought up. Um-

She's just a, she's just a non-player character as they say in the video games.

Jennifer Connelly plays her though?

Yeah.

Interesting. Okay.

Remember her from Rocketeer?

Yeah. I thought, uh-

Just throw another, like, 30-year-old movie reference.

30-year-old movie reference, yeah. Interesting, okay. Yeah, I, I will, uh... Uh, May 27th. Is that a, is that a weekday? Is that a Friday?

I think it's a weekday. Doug and I are planning to go, uh, meet up somewhere to see it.

Oh, that's awesome. Okay, I'm glad I got invited to that one. Thanks, guys.

Yeah, we don't like you. All right, thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.

See ya. Bye.

Okay, stop. Goodness gracious. Hope I don't have to edit too much of that.