Hey, everyone. This is Chad Jan- What are you laughing at?

'Cause we both were thinking the same damn thing- ... when we got started, and I did it, and did you... It, it is what it is.

Well, this is the intro that we're using here.

I kinda miss the in-per- I know, but, like, the video for me is better. I still miss the in-person-

Yeah

... a little bit

The problem is that-

Like

... my camera's over here, so I'm not looking at you.

Uh-

I'm looking at you, but you can't... I'm not looking at you.

See, I, I've arranged my mic so that I can see your face directly when I talk to you. I'm looking into your eyes. Look into my eyes. Who sings that song, by the way?

Uh, that is Bryan Adams.

Oh, yes, sir. That's awesome. All right, sorry, go ahead.

Isn't that the song from Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves?

You know, I, I think you're right, but I had, like, an obsession with, uh... 'Cause it's on his Summer of '69 album, if I remember right, and I think I had a obsession with that album as a kid. Like, like, like a nine-year-old kid, I would listen to that album.

"Because it's dull, you twit. It'll hurt more."

All right.

The best line from Robin Hood.

Correct, yeah.

So anyway, guys, welcome to ZacCast. This is Chad Janiseck. I'm here with Patrick Lawler. How you doing, Pat?

I'm good, Chad. How are you, man?

Good. Uh, well, today we got a couple of hopefully interesting topics to talk about. So the first one's yours. Why don't you go ahead and throw it out there?

Well, first things first, can I start with the fact that you're wearing a Cobra Kai shirt for this podcast? It, it's-

Yeah

... it's incredible.

So I have this red Cobra Kai shirt, and then I have another one that's Johnny Lawrence, like, walking away, and it says, "Strike first, strike hard."

Okay.

I almost wore that one today.

That's cool.

But I have blue shorts on, and it was a little bit too much blue.

Well, I, I will tell you this. Uh, for the last two podcasts now, I've mentioned your shirt. I, I did it in the last one. You had the Baylor Bear shirt on.

Yeah.

Today, Cobra Kai. So you're, you've got some, like, mad shirt style. Where, where are you getting all these shirts?

TeePublic.

TeePublic?

T-E-E Public dot com. Great shirts.

Okay. Well-

Get the, get the tri-blend extra soft. It's a little bit more, but it's totally worth it. Uh, but it's one of those websites where people, like independent artists, will throw up their designs, and then I, I don't know if it's... I assume it's on-demand printing, but, um, there's some really cool stuff there.

I'm gonna have to check that out. They're not a sponsor of the podcast, 'cause we don't have those.

No, but I'll see if I can get an affiliate link and put it in the show notes.

Yeah, right. We'll make a couple extra percentage points on that one if you guys click on that, uh, that link. So, so yeah, uh, to get started, uh, today's podcast is, uh, really... I, I'm gonna jokingly call it, like, the all about Chad's mannerism podcast, uh, because the... It just so happened that the two articles that we wanted to talk about today, uh, and the two different topics really are, uh, like, pet peeves of Chad's. Like, really interesting tie-ins, uh, about him and his personality, and we'll kinda get to that as we go. But there's a, there's a great article, uh, that came out today. Uh, I sent it over to Chad this morning, and, uh, we started a conversation on it, where specifically we're talking about, uh, Google's three-word plan to help employees avoid burnout. Uh, so obviously with, uh, with COVID, a lot of people working from home. We're, we're starting to get, uh, I don't know, annoyed of the Zoom meetings, right? And, uh, annoyed of just the fact that a lot of additional meetings have been placed on employees because that's how we feel productive. Like, if we're not together, if we can't see somebody working at their desk, we just add on a bunch of these Zoom meetings, and we have just overlapping Zoom meetings all day, and they just get frustrating and annoying and so forth and so on. So, so Google has taken that into account, uh, and they've done a couple of things, uh, as a company to try to make it a little better on their employees. Uh, the first thing is is they've added three additional days off, uh, to the end of the year, which is really interesting. Uh, they've added two actual holidays, and they've added one flex day that each team can choose as their third day. So kind of interesting. But the most important thing is that they have decided that they are going to have a no meetings week. So for the week between December 28th, so the week right after Christmas, between Christmas and New Year's, the, from December 28th till January 1st, they are gonna have a no meetings week. Um, and I, I wanna read from the CEO's email to the employees just so you can see exactly what he's talking about. But, "Some of our teams have held, uh, have also held no meetings weeks, which create space for Googlers," as they're called, "to either focus on independent work or make it easier to switch off entirely and take a vacation. We've decided to make December 28th through January 1st an official no meetings week across the company." Chad, what are your thoughts?

Well, as someone who generally disdains meetings, I'm a fan.

Uh-huh.

So you kinda, you kinda mentioned the reason for this fatigue, which is that since a lot of people, especially when you're working remotely... So this may not affect people who listen to this podcast regularly as much, since they're mostly city workers, and they haven't done a whole lot of remote work, uh, especially once you got past that first initial COVID, you know, shutdown period. But in a lot of cases where people have had to do remote work, and honestly even in office scenarios, we substitute looking at, you know, looking at people and watching them for actual management and oversight. So there's a, um, there's just this mentality that we have where as long as I, I can see what you're doing, then I can trust what you're doing as opposed to, like, actually looking at the work product to see if it's done. Giving someone the ability to actually perform their work and then evaluating the quality of it, that's a lot harder to do. It's a lot easier just to look at someone, right? And there's this, uh, this human trait of, you know, just trying to do something. Like, we, we have to do something, right? Like, uh, forgetting Sarah Marshall.Right?

Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah

The, the Aldous Snow song, w- we gotta do something. Um, and, and in some cases, doing something just means like, "Well, let's have, let's have these virtual meetings and things like that so I can, I can see you and have this FaceTime, and just give the impression that I'm actually paying attention to what you're doing." And there's a big disconnect between filling up your time with these, these meetings that give the impression of oversight versus actually having real oversight. It's kind of like the TSA gives you the impression of security at airports, right? But you can still bring in fluids. People, like, people can still wear their shoes through security, so like if the shoe is the issue, it's not, it's not a fail-proof thing to make some people take their shoes off and other peoples' not. So a lot of it is sort of this theater of safety. And in the same way, a lot of companies and managers have gone into this theater of, of management and oversight. And so th- the other thing about this is that... and the article kind of touches on it, this is not something that... I'm not even gonna try to say his name, 'cause I have never actually heard it said out loud, I've just read it. Uh, but the CEO of Google, it's not something that he just came up with on his own. This is something that, that individual teams had been implementing on their own.

Correct.

Right?

Yep.

And then it kind of bubbled up to the top, and they're like, "Hey, this is actually a pretty good idea. Let's try this across the whole company." And so, uh, having the ability for these teams to take that initiative and control their own work environment and say, "Hey, let's, let's try this and see if it kinda helps people have some freedom and some space to, uh, to do their own work," w- it's, it's like a local control question, right? So these individual teams have the freedom to try new things and, and make their work environment more productive. And if those things work, then they can bubble up and, uh, and have a greater impact.

Well, one quick thing on this. Uh, he actually says in the memo as well, "Of course, there will be exceptions for teams that are working to hit hard deadlines, closing deals, or supporting critical infrastructure." So sorry water department and police department, you still have to do these things. But, but I will say, Chad and I have worked together for a long time, been friends for even longer. Um, we have always had a give or take, push, pull relationship when it comes to meetings, right? So I, I will tell you, like in our Hudson Oaks days, I won that argument 'cause I was the city manager and he was the assistant city manager, and so I just, I won, right? But the reality is, is we, I did reduce the number of meetings that I would typically have when Chad came on staff. I would normally have departmental meetings and a couple of meetings, uh, per week, and then I, I went to like one generalized citywide staff meeting, which Chad still kinda hated. I, I would say that was the case, right? I'm not speaking for you there.

I mean, one half-hour standup meeting on Monday mornings was better than having a bunch of smaller meetings, yeah, across the calendar.

So, so that was the other, that was the other push, pull we made, right? Those used to be sitting meetings that would take like an hour and 15 minutes. Then we went to standing meetings for like the last three years, where it was literally like 25 to 30 minutes max. We were in and out, and if anybody had anything important that needed to s- be spoken offline, they would just wait outside of our offices and talk to us directly. And it was pretty effective. It worked out pretty well. So you take that, like when I was the boss, and then you go into like, uh, our Zack world. We have no standardized meetings at all really. Um, it works quite well. But take Allison into account here, right? When Allison first started working with us at Zack, which actually happened before we stopped working at cities, but she went from like a really stringent calendar, schedule, meetings, time worked, checking in, uh, you know, working on online automated systems where she had to be logged into things where they could see that she was available at any given time.

Track what she's doing.

Yeah, like track what she's doing to, um, "Hey, Allison, we'll call you like in two weeks." Right? And o- our clients, just like us, you know, our clients love Allison as much as we do. We, you know, she's awesome for us. But it, it was a transition. You know, we, like the first six months to a year, um, I would always like jokingly get calls from Allison where she'd like, she'd say, "Hey, you know, do I need to be doing anything specific like or do y'all need me somewhere? Like is there anything else I need to be doing?" Because we weren't having these like standard meetings where we were providing feedback all the time. She would just sign a new client, we'd be like, "Hey, awesome job. Thanks, thanks for doing that," and, and that was really it. And so it was just a different world for her. Now it's become a very productive world for us, like that's just how we function as a company. Um, so much so that, uh, when I pick up the phone to call Chad just to kinda conversate, it's, it's like, uh-

I think you mean converse.

Well, conversate's my word of the day, so we're gonna go with conversate.

You need to keep a bucket list of all the words that you make up somewhere on-

It's pretty bad. But like we'll have, we'll have like generalized friend conversations and, and those go great, but then we'll turn to like business for like the last 30 seconds of the conversation, and Chad feels like in a meeting. He doesn't wanna talk.

So there's a-

So-

There's a time and place for meetings.

Uh-huh.

Uh, the meeting that we had on Monday mornings was helpful because if there was something that, forha- example, had come up over the weekend, 'cause, you know, you got water guys and, and gals who are working over the weekends, and when your office staff generally isn't, you have police officers that are working over the weekend. So if something came up that needed to be told to everyone, you know, we had an opportunity for everyone to be kept abreast of what was going on. Um, but because everyone was there, that also tended to limit it to things that were important for everyone. So I often had, uh, a lot of things to tell other people, but if it wasn't like relevant to, say, half of the people that were at that meeting, I would just kinda wait until after and then bring that one person in and tell that person, tell the other person. W- we did, I think, as good a job as you could of keeping it relevant to everyone. But the way that we work now is, is a lot more asynchronously, um, where, you know, we, we use Basecamp for project management and, and-Task management um, they have message boards, so if like if I have something that I'm working on that I that I need to kind of flesh out get some feedback on it forces me to take the time to actually think about what I wanna say and write it out in a way that is clear for everyone, and they can see my entire thought process and what I'm trying to accomplish and then get feedback on their time. Uh, so they have time to process it. They're not trying to come up with something to say on the fly. You know, they c-- they have time where they can formulate their thoughts and then put them into a coherent response. And we can all-- And not only that, but we also have that log of those decisions and how they were made, you know, permanently 'cause it's all in writing.

Yeah. So, uh, you know, when you, when you talk about like Chad and Basecamp, and I, I don't wanna dig into this too much 'cause th-this could be like its whole other topic. But Chad likes to flesh out ideas and throw them out there, like on the bulletin board for everybody to, to think about and talk about. Um, and it's, it's interesting because I don't reply often on Basecamp because it's not the... My communication model or mode is, is not the same way, right? So Chad likes to get it out in writing, and he likes to see it in front of him to really think through the idea, and then when I'm kinda analyzing the idea or making comments or suggestions or coming up with an idea on my own, I generally always do it verbally, right? So he'll post something on Basecamp, and then I'll call him like two hours later to kinda talk it through, and generally, he goes back in and makes notes in Basecamp on his own comment from what I said in my phone call. And it's not because I don't like Basecamp. I, I really do like Basecamp. I think it's fantastic to get all your ideas in one place. It, it, it's really good from a business management perspective but from a communication mode standpoint, COVID is difficult on my personality because my personality is to talk it through to say, "Well, that's a great idea," and kind of just spitball as we go back and forth. And, uh, it, it's, it's been different with, with me out and us not in the same office or, you know, being able to grab as many lunches as we used to or anything like that because, uh, it... I, I'm not able to flesh out as, as much that I used to. I don't know. Your thoughts on that? I know I annoy the life out of you when I do that. We're kinda having a, a counseling session- ... in the middle of our podcast here.

I mean, the nice thing is that at least we've gotten to the point where all of us, instead of just calling, we will typically text someone and say, "Hey, do you have five minutes?" Or like, "When can we call?" So-

Yeah, yeah

... uh, and part of that's because, you know, we all have things that we're doing, right? Not everything-

Mm-hmm

... is immediate urgent. That's kinda new to us. Like, when we worked in Hudson Oaks-

Everything's urgent

... everything was urgent, and it was like-

Mm

... "Hey, I'm just gonna go into your office and ask you this quick question," irrespective of whether you happen to actually be working on something that needed your full attention. I think sh- adopting, even in city government, a slightly more asynchronous way of working could benefit everybody because sometimes you do have, uh, something that needs to, it needs to have your full focus. And if anyone can just kinda come in, whether that's through your Microsoft Messenger or G Chat or Slack or calling you on the phone or just walking in your office, I mean, sometimes you just need to have that alone space. And I mean, if you have a door that you can shut, then that's g- that's great. But, uh, you know, uh, we had like, we talked about this before, but I actually proposed that we had, we could all have a, uh, one half day per week where you could not be interrupted.

Yes, I remember.

Yeah.

You got noise-canceling headphones for the office so that you didn't have to get interrupted by me.

And yeah, I did.

He admitted it, everybody. He admitted it.

I did.

So all right, moving on to the next article. This one's, uh, this one's that Chad sent over.

Okay. So this is an article from CityLab, which again, we, uh, we tend to reference frequently, but this actually has very little to do with city government. Uh, but it's, what it's talking about is it's a critique of the sort of open floor plan for housing. So we talk a lot about open office floor plans and things like that, and, uh, that was a big fad, you know, not too long ago, and it's getting some pushback now, but this is specifically talking about open floor plans in the home. So this article just goes through the history of how homes were designed, and, uh, and then it talks about how, you know, one of the arguments for this open floor planning is for entertaining, which we just don't do as much of these days as we used to, you know, 200 years ago. Um, th-those homes were built with little parlors and entry rooms and foyers and, you know, you would, you would move your, your guests from one space to the next, and, uh, that's how those were designed. But the, everything was based on rooms, and now you walk into a, a, a modern house, and it's just open. Like, if you walk into my house, you can see the entire downstairs almost. Um, your house is, is somewhat similar. There's, there's no real distinction between the kitchen and the living area and the dining room. Uh, and they, they kinda walk through the history of how this happened and when it happened and things like this, and a large part of the article is them just making the case that there was a lot of, there were a lot of benefits to the old way of designing houses that we have just kind of thrown out and lost. So this is a very strong Townsend argument, um, which I, this is kind of why I found it so interesting. Uh, Strong Towns argues that, you know, we, we built cities incrementally and slowly because we had constraints on the materials that we could use and the, the financial resources available to us, and over time, those have kind of gone away. And so when you don't have constraints, you can just do whatever you wanna do, and you can lose the benefit of the, the centuries of wisdom that your society learned by dealing with constraints. And so one interesting point that they make in this article is, uh, let's just take smell, for example.Like, forget about soundproofing. Like, I can't... If my kid's watching TV downstairs, I can hear it through my whole house and I, I assume that you probably are in a similar situation. If you're watching TV in the, the front room you can hear it

Yep. Mm-hmm

Um, so individual rooms provide sound barriers, for one, but they also provide smell barriers. So if you're cooking in your kitchen, then you can smell it through your whole house. So one thing that people are doing now, and also most people's kitchens are pretty messy, uh, especially if you're cooking to entertain, right? So you're like, you know, you're cooking a bunch of food for a bunch of people and your kitchen's gonna be disgusting and if your whole house is this open plan, then people come in and you're going to entertain them, and they can see your whole kitchen mess. So people are now building separate what they call mess kitchens that are, like, away from the living spaces so that they can use those to cook for these events and let everything be messy, uh, keep some of the smell away, keep the mess hidden. So instead of addressing the original problem, which is that we used to build kitchens in their own room so that those things could be isolated, we're still doing this other thing, this open plan thing, but because we don't have those same constraints, because materials are commoditized, because financing is readily available, you know, you're not having to either build your house and pay cash for it or pay as you go. You know, you could finance it over 30 years. So we, we don't have these same constraints anymore, so instead of going back to what we... After having recognized some of the problems and some of the benefits that we have lost, instead of going back to the way we used to do it, we are doing even more, uh, unconstrained work. So to me, this... It was just an interesting article about the value of constraints, so I thought that might be kind of a good topic.

So the first thing I noticed in this article is when you're in an open floor plan, you can't get away from people.

Yes. That's one-

You can't hide in a dark room

... you have man caves, you have she sheds, right?

Yes.

Again-

You have all these things to get away from people

... you don't have constraints. It's like, let's, let's just-

Yes

... keep building more. Let's have... It's almost like you want the best of both worlds, but you really don't have the best of both worlds. You have-

So, uh-

... the less good of both. The sum is not equal. The sum of the whole is less than the individual parts.

So I've never really talked about my dad other than, you know, my typical, "My dad's a property developer," right? But, uh, my dad built... He took his garage, he converted his entire garage at my parents' house to, like, a garage apartment, right? It's where people can stay when they come visit, so forth and so on. But we'll all be at my house, at my parents house, all our families together, and all of a sudden we'll be like, "Hey, where's Dad?" Like, for an hour he's been gone, right? And he's always, like, in the garage apartment, hiding in the quiet. So from a noise standpoint, like, the first thing that comes out to me, especially when you have kids, from a noise standpoint, it is really difficult to, um, to not hear everything your kids are doing in your house when you're in an open floor plan. And, and I have an open floor han- like, everything this, this article describes, open floor plan, ranch style house, right? And, uh, we have one, like, little game room that my kids can go to. Uh, but even in that game room with one door, there's not really a separation from that game room from other rooms and it's, it's still... I can hear everything going on in there, right? Um, so I... You know, from, like, a mental health standpoint, it makes sense that we try to figure out a way to give some people some peace and quiet and separate some rooms and, and things like that. It's interesting to me, like, in the luxury market, that people are building mess kitchens because they still want to be in their nice kitchen or open floor plan kitchen bar area, right, to entertain. They just don't want the mess to be there. So I, I... To me, that's just kinda... I don't know, it's kinda silly. But it's really interesting that people will go back and we look at this and we look at the historic way that, you know, homes were, were being done, and what's most interesting to me is, is that we really haven't... We haven't done anything new in homes in a long time, right? There's not, there's not any, like, real innovation that's happened in houses. I mean, even in, like, the smart home movement, there's been very little innovation within that smart home move- when it, when it comes to, to those things. I, I don't know. What are your thoughts on that? Like, why, why haven't we... Why are we thinking, "Hey, we wanna go from open to closed," and, and why aren't we thinking more about, like, how we change the overall environment of a house period? Like, why, why don't we, um, why don't we integrate AC systems to allow more outside air into our homes? Like, why don't we integrate systems for, for opening our homes out- outward instead of inward?

Well, the point the article makes, and which I tend to agree with, is that... Okay, so let's just talk basic economics for a minute, right?

Right.

The beauty of markets and price signals is they, they help you allocate resources to the most efficient uses over time, okay? So all of a sudden there's a demand for toilet paper, the price goes up. That makes it more justifiable for more people to make more toilet paper, right? So those price signals are what give you the ability to equilibrate over time in a market. But that's all based on the fact that there is a limited amount of, you know, materials and resources. Like, we are constrained by those resources, and we have to make value judgments and financial judgments and things like that based on those constraints. When you remove those constraints, the negative impacts of your decisions aren't felt as readily, right? So, like, when you, when you had to cut your own trees down and pay for your house... Like, we didn't used to have 30-year mortgages, right? I mean-

Sure, people would-

You, you may have to-

... save up and then buy a house

... yeah, or you may have to, like... You may have maybe a two-year construction note that you're-

Mm-hmm

... you have a huge balloon payment at the end of, right? But, like, people used to just own their homes free and clear, and so that means that you have to build a smaller home that you can afford.Um, with the materials that you have, and when the commodity market for, for lumber and those materials and, uh, you know, when those become more readily available and therefore cheaper, when financing becomes more readily available, um, it just means that you are able to make different decisions, uh, because you don't have those same constraints. And again, this is a very strong Townsend argument in terms of, uh, say, federal policies' impact on how cities have developed, whether it's the Federal Highway Administration, whether it's the Federal Housing Administration. When all of this money starts to kind of get thrown in, uh, to the pot because the federal government has a specific set of economic indicators that they care about which are entirely different from what actually matters to a city's financial health and stability, then all of a sudden you don't have those same constraints that you used to, and you end up just kind of not having to live with the impact of those decisions in the short term.

The devil's advocate argument of this, though, is if we close off houses, aren't we just, aren't we just closing off socialization more than we already have? I mean, from like a device standpoint, you know, people not going out... I mean, in a post-COVID world or pre-COVID world, right? People not going out and meeting somebody at, at a place, but doing it through the internet, swiping left and swiping right. Like kids being addicted to devices, you know, like The Social Dilemma, if anybody's seen that on Netflix yet. I mean, you know, aren't we almost encouraging people to become hermits-

By-

... by closing the walls back off?

By building rooms?

By building rooms. Like, the, the, the benefit of an open floor plan is, is when my family comes home and somebody's... I'm cooking dinner or my wife is cooking dinner, the whole family's together. We're talking about school, and we're doing homework on the bar, and, you know, one kid is in another room doing his twenty minutes of reading, and we're all kinda in the same place doing that. And if you, if you hermit that off, don't you lose that last bit of normality and family that the, the open floor plan... I don't look at this as like I've been manipulated into building an open floor plan. I built an open floor plan because that's what fits my family.

Yeah.

That's-

I mean, it's, it's... Well, it's hard to say where that causality starts because up until about, what, seventy, eighty years ago, we'd never built homes that way. So up until then, the sort of socialization that we had as a society was different. Like, you grew up in a certain type of neighborhood, and that's just like what you view as normal. Um, and I'm not saying that open floor plans are bad per se, just the, the point that I took from this article was that the way that we used to build homes, there was a reason for it, and there were benefits that accrued to that style of, of development and building that you don't really realize until you do something different. Strong Towns calls this spooky wisdom. Basically, there's a sp- there's a spooky wisdom about how we used to build homes and neighborhoods and, and cities that when you are no longer concerned about the constraints that prior societies and generations lived with and the reasons that they made those decisions, then all of a sudden you can just lose... You lose those benefits that you had took for granted, right? And then you start to see things differently. So it's not, it's not an argument that it's bad in and of itself, just that we're starting to realize... This- Basic- the point of the article is we're starting to realize that there were benefits to how we used to build homes. But because we don't have the same constraints that we did back then, we're trying to bring some of those benefits back and also keep the new style that we're used to, that we grew up with. I just found it interesting. Like, normally if, if you had constraints and you realized that there were benefits to this old style of development and you built a new house, you would just take those benefits and build your house that way. You wouldn't build it both ways.

I get it. It's just... It's a, it's an interesting take on the article because I'm not sure I would've built my house any different. But I do wanna build a man cave and be able to get away. So.

That's all I'm saying.

That's all we're talking about right there.

So let me wrap up this conversation with a, with a, a parable.

Okay.

G.K. Chesterton has this, the parable, uh, of the fence, and the, the idea is that basically there are two different types of people. Um, let's just assume that they're both walking in the middle of a field in the middle of nowhere, and they happen upon a fence. One type of person will say, "Well, this fence obviously has no purpose. Let's take it down." And the other type of person will say, "This fence exists here, and at some point it had a purpose. So before I just take it down, I'd like to find out what the original purpose was. Is it still serving that purpose? Is it still necessary?" The point is, doing something different is not necessarily bad, but it is important to know why we used to do it a different way before you start to just wholesale make changes. Fair enough?

Fair enough. Yep. Interesting. And with that, folks, we're gonna wrap up. So obviously today's, uh, conversation was all about Chad and his mannerisms. Um, he doesn't like meetings. He doesn't like to talk to people. And if he could hide in a room with lots of walls and doors, he would be happy behind that.

I would just like a little bit more quiet when my kids are yelling and screaming and watching TV.

So we're gonna have both of these articles in the show notes, uh, if you wanna take a peek at those, and you can read through that. Uh, I'd recommend both of them. The Google article is very interesting if you're looking at, uh, from an organizational standpoint how to deal with remote work and what Google's doing in that remote work environment not to burn their employees out. Uh, but until next time, Chad, it was great to be on. Thanks for joining us on ZacCast.

See you, buddy.