# The future of ZacTax, software spies, and zipper merges **Date:** 2020-02-10 **Topics:** traffic, spyware **URL:** https://zactax.com/blog/2020/02/whats-new-with-zac --- In this episode of ZacCast, we talk about the future of ZacTax and our company, Eight20 Consulting. We also talk about software spying and why we wanted to remove third-party tracking software from ZacTax. And we wrap up with a discussion about the ever controversial "zipper merge." **Links** - **[ZacTax](https://www.zactax.com/)** - **[Avast is tracking you](https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qjdkq7/avast-antivirus-sells-user-browsing-data-investigation)** - **[Ring is tracking you](https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/01/ring-doorbell-app-packed-third-party-trackers)** - **[Zipper merging is awesome](http://www.dot.state.mn.us/zippermerge/)** --- ## Transcript **[0:00] Chad:** In this episode of ZacCast, some big announcements are made about the future of ZachTax, some shade is thrown at third-party software tracking, and we talk about the extremely efficient but ever-controversial zipper merge. This is ZacCast episode 10. Here we go. **[0:29] Patrick:** Hey guys, welcome to ZacCast. Uh, it's Patrick. Hey, Chad. How are you, man? **[0:32] Chad:** Pretty good, Pat. How you doing, buddy? **[0:34] Patrick:** I'm good, I'm good. I'm starting today's episode off, uh, I've got some big news in the world of Patrick. There's absolutely, uh, you know, a big change coming in my life. It's hit the papers. A lot of our clients have reached out to me and congratulated me on it, but, uh, like Chad did last year, uh, I have officially given my notice to Hudson Oaks, and I am moving full-time into ZachTax and, uh, our consulting firm, A20. So exciting news for everybody. **[0:58] Chad:** Yeah, welcome to the club. Not quite yet, but soon enough. **[1:00] Patrick:** Yeah, soon enough. March 6th is my last day at Hudson Oaks. Um, and real excited to get rolled out, super sad to leave them, but, uh, you know, it's- we've grown like a weed because our clients have, have allowed us to, and so it's, it's fun to be where we're at. **[1:14] Chad:** So when I, uh, was going through that transitionary period- **[1:17] Patrick:** Mm-hmm **[1:17] Chad:** ... um, it w- it was really kind of surreal. Um, I was the first one to leave, so basically our whole staff was still intact. **[1:24] Patrick:** Mm-hmm. **[1:24] Chad:** Uh, you know, we all had the same roles that we had been in, so we were still fulfilling the same duties. Um, but certainly there were things that would come up that I knew were not gonna be addressed by the time I le- I left. Um, so kind of looking at those things and being like, "Man, that's gonna be fun for them to deal with." **[1:42] Patrick:** True. **[1:42] Chad:** That was, that was interesting. **[1:43] Patrick:** I, I think, um, I think it's a little different. It's almost surreal for me because I was always under the impression, they hammer it into you at grad school and your MPA, like, "You're gonna get fired. One of these days you'll get fired, and that's just a part of the business," right? And it's been surreal to me to leave, like- **[2:00] Chad:** On your own terms **[2:00] Patrick:** ... on, on my own terms, you know. Um, you know, obviously I'm leaving without a, a severance, which is awesome for the city of Hudson Oaks. You know, look, we've, we've done some fantastic things together and, uh, I'm blessed to live here and be here. But it, it is, it is weird to be leaving, like, a great job. That is such a weird feeling. Um, but obviously I've been blessed with what we've been able to build with Zach, and the growth that we've had has been so prolific. It's, it's time to do it. But it's different because I, I think I'm probably gonna get called a lot, and there's gonna be, you know, a lot of things that I'm still, you know, trying to help with, just like you do today. I mean, you, you say that, but the reality is we probably call you once a week, right, about something. **[2:43] Chad:** Yeah, I still, I still have an unpaid consulting gig with the city of Hudson Oaks. **[2:46] Patrick:** Yeah, unpaid consulting gig. But I mean, that's the, that's kind of the love that we have for the community, right? Like, we've... It's such a different place. Our city council was, was so good to us as, like, employees. Um, and, and so, you know, I, I, I just have this, like, long-term care for them that's not gonna go away. **[3:02] Chad:** It's, it's a sign of a really solid culture when the people who leave still want to actively help. **[3:08] Patrick:** Yes. **[3:08] Chad:** Um, several of us who have left administration over the last few years are still, uh, involved. And when we're in town, we stop by and say hi. **[3:16] Patrick:** Yeah. **[3:16] Chad:** We help out on, on the events that, that the city hosts. **[3:19] Patrick:** Mm-hmm. **[3:19] Chad:** So yeah, I mean, it's definitely a sign that a solid culture has been built in that organization. **[3:23] Patrick:** I mean, even our, even a lot of our old city managers who've gone on to be city managers in other places, right, they still come back and hang out. You know, it's just kind of that, that culture, that office space that we've got and, and everything that's there. So I'm excited to, to get a, a new staff member hired and, uh, replace myself. That's- **[3:39] Chad:** Yeah, what's that like replacing yourself? **[3:41] Patrick:** You know, it's interesting. When, when I sat down with council and we kinda went through what that process was gonna look like, the, the level of v- involvement they gave me in that process was surprising. Um, but it's been fun. It's been fun to talk to a lot of people in career throughout the state and just tell them all of the things over the last 15 to 20 years that we've been able to do in Hudson Oaks, with not just myself or you, but the other managers that have been there as well. Sherry and Robert and, you know, some of the young professionals that have come through our organization have been just tremendous for us. And so, uh, it, it's different for sure to be replacing yourself. Uh, you're, you're basically telling people when you're having conversations with them and trying to recruit them to the position like, "Hey, we've done all these things, and I think they're all right. Like, I think, you know, you may have a different opinion, but I think what we did was a great thing, and I think it's gonna turn out to be pretty co- pretty cool." **[4:34] Chad:** Yeah, I mean, it's a good time too for the city. Um- **[4:36] Patrick:** Correct **[4:36] Chad:** ... we, we accomplished quite a bit over the last five years. A lot of those things, uh, the, the work had been put in before that, obviously. **[4:43] Patrick:** Yeah. **[4:43] Chad:** It kinda came to fruition, um, over the last couple of years. Um, from a revenue standpoint, city appears to be in pretty good shape. **[4:50] Patrick:** Uh, absolutely. **[4:52] Chad:** Um, s- so much so that when I left, people thought that I was artificially holding down certain revenue numbers Because everything just hit at the same time right when I was leaving, and all that, all that revenue just exploded, so. **[5:01] Patrick:** Because the nickname's, uh, the nickname of Chad's office was no. That's what it was called. **[5:05] Chad:** Yes, my- I was the, uh- **[5:06] Patrick:** Yes **[5:06] Chad:** ... the chief no officer. **[5:07] Patrick:** Yeah. As the assistant city manager, the job is always to be the bad guy, you know? **[5:11] Chad:** Yeah, the person with the- **[5:12] Patrick:** You don't get to deal with council as much, but you've gotta be the bad guy for everybody else, right? So, you know, you know, fairly exciting. We always called it the slingshot effect in Hudson Oaks. You know, we've been pulling that slingshot back for years and years and years. And yes, from a revenue standpoint, you know, we, we hit that, you know, slap, the slingshot finally hit. Revenue's up 20, 25% over the last couple of years. Uh, and so the city's in a position where they get to do a lot of fun stuff now, right? And so, uh, not that I'm not a fun manager, I am, right? Uh, but they're at the point now where a lot of theA lot of the economic development base has been put in place and is going to work. It's going to develop at this point. We know the market's there. Um, and it's, it's time for that next manager with a little different vision, and, and that's exciting for me to walk away and understand, like, it's my time to go. I'd, I'd love to sit down with some of the city managers that stayed in cities for 20 or 25 years and have those conversations in the future. I mean, you know, chatting with, like, the Sugar Land city manager who just left would be awesome. Uh, he prepared his organization very well for that, and, and I'm proud that in a small organization I've been able to do that in Hudson Oaks as well. So, um, pretty cool. Pretty cool to leave, but we got other big news as well. **[6:20] Chad:** Yeah, your departure comes at a, a, a very particular time for us because, uh... So later today, which will, uh, have already occurred by the time this is published, but, uh, we're hosting our first ever, uh, web conference. **[6:31] Patrick:** Yes. **[6:32] Chad:** So, um, right now, just as it- we kind of get it started, it's primarily focused on our actual user base. Um, the attendance registration is a lot-- exceeded my expectations, so. **[6:43] Patrick:** I mean, we were gonna be happy with, like- **[6:45] Chad:** 10 people. **[6:47] Patrick:** So... And I don't know what our numbers are at now, but it's quite a bit. **[6:50] Chad:** Yeah. **[6:50] Patrick:** Yeah. **[6:50] Chad:** It's, it's a lot more than I was, than I was hoping for. **[6:52] Patrick:** Correct. **[6:53] Chad:** Um, so, you know, we are, uh-- we intend to kind of expand. Obviously, we've been podcasting now, we've been blogging for, for quite a bit. We're trying to expand, uh, just the, the reach that we have for, like, the, the audience- **[7:05] Patrick:** Mm-hmm **[7:05] Chad:** ... you know, just the non-user base, right? Um, and not as an attempt to sort of convert people and sell people, but just to put knowledge out there and put information and, and spark conversations. Um, so I- I'm hoping that this may one day morph into something a little bit bigger, but, uh, the big thing that we're doing today is we are announcing and sort of officially releasing the next version of ZakTax. **[7:27] Patrick:** Absolutely. **[7:28] Chad:** So this is- **[7:28] Patrick:** It's a big update. **[7:29] Chad:** It, it, it's a pretty big update. Um, we started it pretty much when I rolled out. Uh, the, the biggest element is, uh, a bunch of back-end and infrastructure changes which don't really affect the front-end users or the actual implementation and- **[7:42] Patrick:** So let's talk about that real, real quick, like, before we get into, like, the nuts and bolts of the, of the new program, right, and what's there. We've had Zak out as a product for how long? **[7:52] Chad:** Probably about five years. **[7:53] Patrick:** And this is our third iteration. **[7:55] Chad:** Yeah, the third distinct iteration. **[7:56] Patrick:** That's correct. So I think that's important to note that when our clients tell us, like, "Hey, it would be cool to do this," or, "It would be cool to have this," those new features and the things, we are constantly writing that down. We're tracking it. We're thinking about it. And in our rebuilds, we're taking all those things into account, right? And so that's why-- I, I think it's so that people understand, who may have only been a Zak client for, you know, the last year, right? This is the third time. Some of our clients have been through all three- **[8:25] Chad:** Mm-hmm **[8:25] Patrick:** ... at this point. But, um, we, we really depend on them to kind of give us that feedback. **[8:30] Chad:** Yeah, so I mean, we're not waiting for overhauls to add features, right? **[8:33] Patrick:** No, at all. **[8:33] Chad:** These are, these are sort of, uh, almost paradigm changes or, or technology changes. Um, this, uh, the new infrastructure that, that we're about to roll out, uh, is a lot more flexible, a lot more, uh, sort of battle-hardened for, for future growth. Um, there's a UI refresh. Uh, we've taken the opportunity to kind of look at some new technologies that, that will make the experience a little bit better and faster and quicker, um, a- and more stable, and give us the ability to add features as we go. Um- **[9:03] Patrick:** I'm gonna be honest, it flies. I mean, the s- **[9:05] Chad:** It's- **[9:05] Patrick:** The, the software itself flies. **[9:07] Chad:** It's a, it's a really cool thing and, and once we kind of get through it, um, I think we'll probably post, uh, something on the blog and kind of shout out to some of the people who built the tools that we're gonna be using. **[9:16] Patrick:** Yeah. **[9:17] Chad:** Um, really amazing, uh, s- stuff that's just going out there in the open source community right now, particularly in the, in the, the, the world where, you know, we build our software, the type of technologies that we use. **[9:27] Patrick:** Mm-hmm. **[9:28] Chad:** Um, that community is, is being really innovative, so very exciting. **[9:31] Patrick:** I mean, we, we, we're analyzing almost a billion dollars in sales tax data across the state of Texas, right, right now, and we're giving answers and delivering statistics in seconds to our clients. That's- **[9:44] Chad:** Yeah, like milliseconds. **[9:45] Patrick:** That's huge. I don't think when we built Zak the first time, we thought we- **[9:48] Chad:** It, it could never handle the scale that we're at **[9:49] Patrick:** ... we could never handle the scale that we're at, right? And so to go from there to where what we're releasing today is, is just, I mean, it's a huge improvement, and a lot to be said for your programming skill development that has occurred over the time, 'cause that's also important to note, guys. We don't hire outside programmers. This is in-house programmed by us, by Chad mainly, and it, it just, you know, it's grown on its own, and so it's so organic in the way that we've, we've built it. **[10:16] Chad:** Yeah. Which also means that your, you know, your data is secure, because- **[10:19] Patrick:** It's never touched by anybody else **[10:20] Chad:** ... you know, we're the ones who are, who are, uh, uh, handling it and securing it. Um, th- there's a lot of, a lot of the back-end infrastructure that we have added is to actually increase the security- **[10:30] Patrick:** Mm-hmm **[10:30] Chad:** ... of your data, um, to make sure that it's protected, um, because for the sales tax stuff, it's confidential. So we definitely wanna make sure that it's taken care of, um, and isolated from, from other users. So, um, a lot of really cool changes. Many of those changes are for future growth. They don't necessarily-- They're not something that the users are gonna see. Um, but we got- **[10:48] Patrick:** Not, not right now. **[10:49] Chad:** But we got a fe- a, a full UI refresh, um, with a lot of cool new features. I'm really excited to, to kind of roll that out. We've already started to demo some new potential clients- **[10:59] Patrick:** Uh-huh **[10:59] Chad:** ... uh, on the new system. Um, feedback's been great. We've had a lot of help from some of our existing clients a- as we developed it. Um- **[11:06] Patrick:** Yeah. Huge shout-out to those existing clients who beta tested for us. **[11:09] Chad:** Yes, thank you very much. **[11:09] Patrick:** 'Cause almost when it goes into beta, it's usually a little uglier than it finishes for sure, so we appreciate that. **[11:15] Chad:** Um, so right now, obviously, we're primarily focused on sales tax. **[11:20] Patrick:** Correct. **[11:20] Chad:** Um, if you look at our, our marketing site, you can s- see that we've got a vision for, for future growth. Um, a lot of these changes are allowing us to expand into those areas, one of which is hotel taxes. **[11:32] Patrick:** It's a big area of expansion for us. It's, it's been in Santa's workshop for some time, and so- **[11:36] Chad:** Yeah, it's sort of in the, in the mental queue, kind of stewing and, and- **[11:40] Patrick:** Yes **[11:40] Chad:** ... and growing. Um, we've built some prototypes over the last few months of what this is gonna look like, but, um-As we talked more and more with our, our clients and with other people who, um, use their hotel tax data and trying to find ways to analyze it, we decided to do something kind of interesting with hotel taxes. **[11:59] Patrick:** Yeah, I mean, I think, I think when Chad and I started thinking about this, we... One, we've built kind of a couple different prototypes in actual code base in, in, in a UI, and then we tore it apart. We're like, "Ah, we don't really like that. We don't like the way it works." So then we really got to talking with some of our clients, and we got talking internally with our Zak team, and we're gonna do something totally different than what we've done before when we build hotels, which is we're gonna build it in the open. So as we're building it, our clients are going to use it for free. **[12:31] Chad:** Yes. **[12:31] Patrick:** Right? **[12:32] Chad:** So there's no, like, behind the scenes developing, beta testing, al- you know, alpha testing, beta testing, anything. **[12:38] Patrick:** Correct. **[12:38] Chad:** As soon as we get the most minimally viable front screen where you can search through some s- some hotel tax data- **[12:45] Patrick:** Mm-hmm **[12:45] Chad:** ... it's gonna be included in Zak. **[12:47] Patrick:** Correct. **[12:47] Chad:** And our users are gonna be able to see it for free and offer s- uh, suggestions and make changes and help us build the product to suit their needs. **[12:54] Patrick:** Right. It's not gonna be free forever. We wanna be clear about that. Like, we're, we're investing in this, so we'll have to charge for it at some point. But we believe that n- we have been able to build a great sales tax product because of what our clients have given to us about that information. And so by building this in open and providing it while we're building it at no charge, we're, we're hopeful that our clients will give us that feedback on this as well as we build so that we can build the best possible, uh, product, uh, for our cities. **[13:21] Chad:** So one of the other things we're doing is, um, we're removing any kind of third-party tracking. **[13:27] Patrick:** Yes. **[13:27] Chad:** Uh, and right now the, the only thing that we do in, um, in Zak Tax, like the actual application, is our customer support chatting. **[13:35] Patrick:** Mm-hmm. **[13:36] Chad:** Um, we've already removed Google Analytics from the, from the marketing site. Uh, we use a new service that tracks very minimal amount of information and keeps no identifiable records. So it's really just tracking what pages that people go to. **[13:48] Patrick:** Mm-hmm. **[13:48] Chad:** That's basically it. Um, but with the new system, we are taking out any third-party libraries that will, that require your user information. So our chat software basically takes your email address so that we know what user we're chatting with. **[14:01] Patrick:** Yes. **[14:01] Chad:** Um, so it's already pretty minimal, but there has been a lot of news come out lately- **[14:07] Patrick:** Mm-hmm **[14:07] Chad:** ... about the use of these third-party tracking and how that information is used. Um, we saw an article the other day about Avast. **[14:14] Patrick:** Ava- which is a, which is an antivirus software- **[14:17] Chad:** Right **[14:17] Patrick:** ... that people, people get, yeah. **[14:18] Chad:** And so basically, uh, the, the interesting thing about this is they were... You, you install, um, a browser extension- **[14:26] Patrick:** Mm-hmm **[14:26] Chad:** ... that is supposedly helping to keep you off of, uh, compromised websites or malicious websites. And as a result, it's tracking not only what pages you visit, but where your mouse is hovering, where it's clicking. **[14:38] Patrick:** Mm-hmm. **[14:38] Chad:** Uh, you know, all the, all that information, and they're hoarding all this information. Then they had this subsidiary called, I think, JumpStart or- **[14:46] Patrick:** It was Jump something. **[14:47] Chad:** Jumpshot. **[14:48] Patrick:** Jumpshot. Jumpshot. **[14:49] Chad:** So they had this subsidiary- **[14:50] Patrick:** Mm-hmm **[14:51] Chad:** ... that was selling this information- **[14:52] Patrick:** Making lots of money **[14:53] Chad:** ... lot, like millions and millions of dollars- **[14:56] Patrick:** Correct, yes **[14:56] Chad:** ... to... A- and what they, their, uh, marketing thing was, like, every click, every site, every user, right? They had hundreds of millions of people using this. **[15:03] Patrick:** The worst part about this is before they got caught, they have a free software and they have a paid software, right? Before they got caught, they were actually selling it on their user data from people who were paying for their services, right? So you would go in and you would pay for their service, and they didn't notify you of it, but they were selling that- **[15:21] Chad:** Well, I'm sure it was buried somewhere in a- **[15:22] Patrick:** It was- **[15:22] Chad:** ... 5,000-line type of service **[15:23] Patrick:** ... well, the article, the article kind of went into that a little bit. Like, all of a sudden, on the free site, there's now a disclosure that wasn't there before, right? Before they started asking questions, it wasn't there, and now it's there. So now they've gotten rid of it on the, on the paid site ap- supposedly, right? And it's just on the free version of the software. Uh, you know, look, I mean, everybody assumes that if you're doing something for free or you're not paying for something, that there's gonna be some tracking. They're making money somewhere, right? **[15:49] Chad:** Yeah, you're basically, you're the product. **[15:50] Patrick:** You are the product, and that's kind of assum- You know, everybody knows that that's the assumption today. But man, it's an antivirus software, and I think that's why it's shocking 'cause it... And, and then the scary thing about it is, is that there really was a way to connect identifiable data of that user. If you really wanted to dig into it, put the pieces together, you could figure out who they were. **[16:11] Chad:** Yeah, 'cause let's talk about who's, who's buying this data. So let's say a major brand is interested to know if, uh, an ad campaign is generating clicks to their website. **[16:23] Patrick:** Correct, yeah. **[16:24] Chad:** These brands have, uh, they have tracking of, you know, visits to their website down to the millisecond timestamp. They're buying this data from Jumpshot that includes the exact same timestamps and the exact same, uh, traversal of their webpage. **[16:38] Patrick:** Correct. **[16:38] Chad:** Which they could easily just match to their data and figure out who's who. **[16:43] Patrick:** Yes. **[16:43] Chad:** Right? Like, it's de-anonymi- or it's anonymized, but, uh, you can only an- anonymize data at that level of granularity so much. It's, it's not impossible to, to tie it back to, uh, an, an actual user that that person's aware of. **[16:59] Patrick:** No, especially when you're talking in the world of, like, big technology where, you know, the data connections are not that difficult to make anymore. **[17:06] Chad:** Think of, think about this. Uh, Facebook... I actually, I was just listening to, uh, to a, a podcast this morning on the way in here. **[17:12] Patrick:** Mm-hmm. **[17:13] Chad:** And, uh, Facebook has a service where even if you don't have an account, you can send them a request to get access to all the data they have about you. How do they know that it's about you if you don't have an account? **[17:24] Patrick:** You don't have an account, but they know it's you. **[17:25] Chad:** We talked about their shadow profa- profiles before, right? **[17:28] Patrick:** Correct, yeah. **[17:29] Chad:** So yeah, it's, it's... The, the veil of anonymity that we think we have is, is not anywhere near as, as strong. **[17:36] Patrick:** Absolutely. So that all being said, when we built Zak 3, we, we took a very strong stance that we were gonna take any third-party service that we used within our software platforms, and we were gonna try to minimize that as much as possible so that that, so that data was not being tracked by anybody. **[17:51] Chad:** Right. So the only third-party service that we use now, um, is, uh, is Google Maps- **[17:56] Patrick:** Mm-hmm **[17:56] Chad:** ... but there's no identifiable information that's getting sent to them. **[17:59] Patrick:** Correct. **[17:59] Chad:** Um, it's just a mapping service, so. **[18:01] Patrick:** And that's just working on that KMZ platform, and so that things run faster than it would be on, like, an Esri platform. **[18:07] Chad:** Yeah. **[18:07] Patrick:** Yeah. **[18:07] Chad:** And less, less clunky. **[18:09] Patrick:** Less- **[18:09] Chad:** Less clunky general- **[18:10] Patrick:** Less clunky, yeah. Uh, when you're, when you're analyzing a billion dollars in data in all those different data sources, it's very difficult to run that on Esri. **[18:17] Chad:** It's amazing, though, how many, uh, how many stories recently have come out about all this tracking. Like, I saw a thing, I think I just sent it to you yesterday, about Ring. **[18:26] Patrick:** Yes. **[18:27] Chad:** Um, the Electronic Frontier Foundation, EFF, I'm not sure if that's the right acronym. I know that's, those are right letters. I'm not sure if that's what it stands for. But, um, they just posted an expose about the Ring Android app, uh, where they kinda did a bunch of hacking to, to expose the actual encrypted traffic that's being sent. I mean, they're sending application events to Facebook's Graph API. **[18:50] Patrick:** Notice it was through the Android app. **[18:53] Chad:** I mean, it's possible that they could be doing the same thing for, uh, in their iOS app, but- **[18:57] Patrick:** It is, it is, it is entirely possible, but that is... That app environment is so much more closed off and controlled, right? So it's a little... I'm not saying it's safer. It's just different. So, uh, it's important to point out. **[19:09] Chad:** Yeah. But now s- uh, in this particular article, there, there were some of the services that are legitimate, right? They're, they're- **[19:16] Patrick:** Correct **[19:16] Chad:** ... tracking how the application is being used so they can determine if they need to make tweaks to interface or, um, you know, functionality. But- **[19:23] Patrick:** Well, I mean, tracking rage clicks, which is something that we track, right? You wanna track rage clicks because you wanna know, like, are people getting frustrated because they can't get to a link on your site, right? **[19:34] Chad:** Right. **[19:35] Patrick:** That, that's super helpful for us. **[19:35] Chad:** And they can't figure out where they're going, and they just start bashing on the, on the mouse, right? **[19:38] Patrick:** Correct, yeah. So, I mean, there, there are little things like that that you, you need to track so that the software actual user interface is better at, at the end of the day, so. **[19:47] Chad:** But it, it... For what purpose could they have to send, uh, an email address, a device ID, and application events to Facebook? **[19:57] Patrick:** There is no purpose for that. **[19:59] Chad:** Like, this person downloaded the app. They ins- they opened the app. The app went inactive because the screen, you know, turned off after a certain amount of time. **[20:06] Patrick:** Uh-huh. **[20:07] Chad:** Like, what value would, would you get from sending that to Facebook? I, I, I just cannot understand. **[20:13] Patrick:** Well, I mean, just think, just think with Facebook and with Google, the single sign-on that is basically everywhere now, right? I mean, there's a lot of data collection that occurs on that. And, and I'm, I'm a big user of it 'cause it's just so much easier to use my single sign-on for, for my Gmail accounts. But obviously that's another way that they're gonna track your data, especially Facebook. I mean, they're, they're a master at it. There's plenty of articles out there for people to read on that one. **[20:38] Chad:** Yeah. So we're definitely trying to reduce reliance on third-party services. We wanna make sure that not only is your confidential data secure, but also your user data is, is secure and- **[20:47] Patrick:** Yes, absolutely **[20:47] Chad:** ... and isolated. So, so that's gonna be Zach 3. Um, like I said, we're officially showing it to our clients today, um- **[20:56] Patrick:** Big announcements **[20:57] Chad:** ... starting to- **[20:57] Patrick:** On full-time Zach, March 6th. Fantastic news. And Zach 3 is, the official announcement is today at ZachConf. So super excited about what we've got moving, moving forward, for sure. **[21:08] Chad:** So since we have a f- a little bit more time, Pat, let me, let me ask you something. Is there anything that you know to be true in your heart of hearts that other people just refuse to believe? Let me give you an example in my life, okay? **[21:25] Patrick:** Okay. All right. **[21:25] Chad:** We've had this debate before because I actually got in trouble when I was in Hudson Oaks. I don't understand... I do understand it logically. I don't- **[21:33] Patrick:** Oh, my gracious. Is this gonna be a zipper merge discussion? **[21:35] Chad:** Yes. **[21:36] Patrick:** Okay. Let's go. **[21:38] Chad:** I don't understand why people can't r- remove emotion and just accept that the zipper merge is the most efficient way to merge traffic. **[21:47] Patrick:** Because, Sheldon, not everybody has that special power in their mindset to be logical at all times. **[21:53] Chad:** It's, but it's not even about all times. Um, like, I understand- **[21:56] Patrick:** No, you're logical, like, 95% of the time, right? Like, everything is a logic conversation with you. **[22:02] Chad:** Except for sports. **[22:03] Patrick:** Correct. And then you're totally illogical. It doesn't matter what Texas does, they're the greatest team on Earth. **[22:06] Chad:** Or, or Dallas. **[22:07] Patrick:** Or Dallas. It's- **[22:08] Chad:** I, I've been a lot better with the Cowboys because they've just been so mediocre, I just accept it. **[22:13] Patrick:** It, it- **[22:13] Chad:** Like, I just know that they're gonna be terrible or- **[22:14] Patrick:** Well, you're that way with the Rangers too. **[22:16] Chad:** Yeah, but we had, I mean, we had more recent success. **[22:20] Patrick:** I mean, it is what it is. **[22:21] Chad:** The Cowboys only won two s- two playoff games in the last, like, 30 years, so. **[22:24] Patrick:** This tells, this tells you how polar opposite... So, so, so Chad, you are a Rangers fan- **[22:28] Chad:** Mm-hmm **[22:29] Patrick:** ... a Cowboys fan, and a Texas Longhorn. **[22:31] Chad:** Yes. **[22:32] Patrick:** Right? Okay. I am an Aggie, an Astros fan, and a Texans fan. **[22:37] Chad:** So, so I was born in Houston. **[22:39] Patrick:** Uh-huh. **[22:40] Chad:** Most of my dad's family lives in Houston. Um, I grew up an Astros fan. **[22:45] Patrick:** It's sad that you're still not one. **[22:47] Chad:** I don't hate the Astros. **[22:48] Patrick:** I'm knocking on my trash can right now. **[22:50] Chad:** Yeah. **[22:50] Patrick:** Trying to bring you back. **[22:51] Chad:** We'll talk about that later. I, I don't hate the Astros, but when I moved up here, I started to follow the Rangers. Uh, you know, I was going to games a lot. Um, I mean, I used to go to... When I lived in Austin, I would go to Texas games. **[23:02] Patrick:** Yeah. **[23:02] Chad:** I didn't go to H- to Astros games very often 'cause Houston is not terribly close to Austin. Um, especially when you're, you know, growing up, you can't just decide that I'm gonna drive myself to Houston- **[23:11] Patrick:** Correct **[23:11] Chad:** ... at, at 13. So, um, so I moved up to the Dallas-Fort Worth area. I started following the Rangers. They were in the American League. Astros are National League. It's wonderful. My hope was that they'd play each other in the World Series. Um, in 2005, when the Astros were in the World Series, like, I was a huge Astros supporter. **[23:29] Patrick:** Correct. **[23:29] Chad:** Okay. But over time, you know, I, I grew to love both teams. And then when the Astros made the move to the, to the, not only just to the AL, but to the same division- **[23:37] Patrick:** To the AL- **[23:38] Chad:** AL West **[23:39] Patrick:** ... West, yeah. **[23:40] Chad:** I had to make a choice. I couldn't support two teams in the same division, so I chose the Rangers. **[23:44] Patrick:** So you went with the, well, you went with the better team, which basically means you're a bandwagon fan. **[23:47] Chad:** No. I, I went with the Ra- **[23:48] Patrick:** The Astros were terrible at that time. **[23:50] Chad:** I went with... **[23:51] Patrick:** The Astros were still in the National League **[23:53] Chad:** When the Rangers were in the World Series **[23:54] Patrick:** Jim Crane became the owner, brought them to the American League, and then absolutely devastated the team. **[23:59] Chad:** Stole Nolan Ryan. **[23:59] Patrick:** Stole Nolan Ryan. But just took every pl- I mean, just demolished the current roster of the Astros. So they were not good for a couple of years because of that. **[24:07] Chad:** But that, that had nothing to do with my calculation. My- **[24:10] Patrick:** Sure. **[24:11] Chad:** I, I, I live in the Dallas-Fort Worth area now. **[24:13] Patrick:** I gotcha. Okay. **[24:13] Chad:** So that's my team. **[24:14] Patrick:** So do I. **[24:15] Chad:** Now, um, I used to be an Oilers fan- **[24:17] Patrick:** Uh-huh **[24:18] Chad:** ... when I was... when they were in Houston, obviously. **[24:19] Patrick:** So do you sorta kinda root for, for Tennessee even though it had an Aggie quarterback this year? Did that hurt you that Ryan Tannehill was throwing the ball? **[24:27] Chad:** Like six times a game? **[24:28] Patrick:** Yes. **[24:28] Chad:** No. It didn't, didn't hurt me. There's a reason why Ryan Tannehill was throwing the ball like six or nine times in the playoffs. **[24:33] Patrick:** That's a good point. **[24:34] Chad:** Uh, no, uh, it did not hurt me. Um, I, I was never a Cowboys fan growing up- **[24:39] Patrick:** Who- **[24:39] Chad:** ... particularly because they were winning championships and everyone was becoming a Cowboys fan- **[24:44] Patrick:** True **[24:44] Chad:** ... and I didn't wanna jump on that bandwagon. **[24:45] Patrick:** We've really diverged from zipper merge, by the way. **[24:48] Chad:** Yeah, I don't even know how we got onto this. **[24:49] Patrick:** That's right. Yeah. We went down, we went down the road of sports. **[24:52] Chad:** Uh, but anyway, um, so when I moved up here, uh, just the proximity and, and being around the Cowboys, I just became a Cowboys fan too, so. **[25:01] Patrick:** Okay. **[25:01] Chad:** Um, it's geographic, it's not bandwagon. But anyway, all that to say, um... God, how did we even get onto that topic? This will be an interesting one to re-listen and, and kinda figure out how we diverged. **[25:15] Patrick:** Yeah. **[25:15] Chad:** Uh, zipper merges. When you look at, uh- **[25:19] Patrick:** So can we tell the story about what Chad did as an assistant city manager in Hudson Oaks with zipper merge? **[25:23] Chad:** Yeah. Okay. So there's some- **[25:23] Patrick:** Okay **[25:23] Chad:** ... construction, some road construction going on just outside of Hudson Oaks. **[25:27] Patrick:** Yes, in an intersection that is heavily traveled. **[25:31] Chad:** Yes. **[25:31] Patrick:** Yes. **[25:32] Chad:** Uh, and- **[25:33] Patrick:** Still under construction, by the way, almost two years later **[25:36] Chad:** ... #TxDOT. **[25:38] Patrick:** Love you guys. **[25:39] Chad:** So anyway, um, uh, where the traffic would merge on the frontage road to a, uh, a four-way frontage road intersection- **[25:47] Patrick:** Mm-hmm **[25:48] Chad:** ... which TxDOT's trying to do away with. **[25:50] Patrick:** Mm-hmm. **[25:50] Chad:** Um, it's gonna affect me at my house pretty soon, and it's kinda frustrating, but it is what it is. Um, people would not merge at the last minute, so traffic would back up all the way onto the highway. And this happens all over the place. **[26:02] Patrick:** Correct. **[26:02] Chad:** There's a, there's a, uh, a particular zipper merge location right at a major shopping center n- near my house, and traffic will always not only back up into the highway, but, uh, there's a quick, like a, an early turn into the shopping center that you can never get into because people are waiting to go through the intersection. **[26:21] Patrick:** Correct. **[26:21] Chad:** And if people would use the full amount of queue available- **[26:24] Patrick:** Mm-hmm **[26:24] Chad:** ... then it wouldn't, A, back up into the highway, which is terribly dangerous, and two, people could actually use that turn lane and remove people from the queue. **[26:33] Patrick:** So before we get into exactly what Chad did, let's explain that the zipper merge is a proven method for traffic control and to move vehicles at a faster rate than what is done now, where everybody tries to merge at the back of the line- **[26:47] Chad:** As soon as they see- **[26:48] Patrick:** ... because they feel bad for cutting **[26:49] Chad:** ... as soon as they see the, the lane closed ahead- **[26:51] Patrick:** Just- **[26:51] Chad:** ... they move over im- I used to be, I used to be that guy. **[26:53] Patrick:** Texas... Yes, exactly. Texas Transportation Institute, right, has come out, done studies on this. Everybody knows this is the better path to do it, right? It's the more logical approach. So the, the Chad reaction to this, uh, or more, more likely when Sheldon Cooper tries to tell the world how they are not living correctly, uh, approach is let's post on the city Facebook page an example of merging and tell them they should use it more wisely. **[27:22] Chad:** My comment was- ... hey, every, everyone hates traffic, but if you zipper merge, you can at least make it a little bit better. **[27:30] Patrick:** Gotcha. Okay. **[27:31] Chad:** To which many people, uh, were grateful and offered thanks, and, "Yes, I agree with this. This is great." **[27:39] Patrick:** How about the other 80%? **[27:41] Chad:** No, there was like one comment that was negative. And then there was you. **[27:45] Patrick:** I love, I love how you, like, have replayed history in your mind- **[27:48] Chad:** I have screenshots **[27:49] Patrick:** ... that you only had one negative comment. **[27:52] Chad:** I have screenshots to prove it. But- **[27:53] Patrick:** The, the amount of text messages that I got on that post alone were amazing. **[27:57] Chad:** You weren't even there, were you? **[27:58] Patrick:** No, I was out of town. **[27:59] Chad:** Yeah. So I get a text- **[28:00] Patrick:** I believe I had to call, and I... Probably for the first time ever, I, I don't think I ever told you you had to do something. **[28:07] Chad:** That was the only time. It was like- **[28:07] Patrick:** That was the on- That was the only time in, in us working together for forever, right, that I had to say, "Chad, take it down." "Okay, I'll take it down." But I've never had to do that before. **[28:18] Chad:** No, but if you go... I, so I don't use Facebook really at all anymore. **[28:21] Patrick:** Wow. **[28:21] Chad:** But if you go and look at my account, the profile picture is a zipper Because of this incident. **[28:27] Patrick:** So to, to be, uh, to be fair, I think every city manager out there or assistant city manager, anybody in management, you've always wanted to respond on social media. I've probably tried to respond maybe 15 or 20 times on social media, where I write something, and then I'm like, "It's probably better if I just leave that alone," and I just delete it, right? And then I'm always fearful that I accidentally posted it, so I go back and look at it like four or five times, right? That happens to everybody. Uh, this time Chad just actually posted it. He went out- **[28:54] Chad:** It was a public, it was a public service announcement. **[28:56] Patrick:** Sure it was. **[28:57] Chad:** The thing is, though, I used to be the guy who would get over early- **[29:00] Patrick:** He was mansplaining to the world. That's a, that's a throwback term **[29:03] Chad:** ... traffic, trafficsplaining. **[29:04] Patrick:** Trafficsplaining, yes. **[29:05] Chad:** But I would get over early, and then I would be the guy who, like, sits in the middle of the two lanes to try to keep people from going around you. And if they would try, I would, like, scoot over a little bit more. You know, I just... I fully understand the emotional response. We have this sort of ingrained in, in our culture that, uh, cheating is bad, uh, that, you know, basically trying to go till the very end is like, is just cutting, right? **[29:29] Patrick:** Correct, yes. **[29:29] Chad:** And, and there's like this emotional response to it. But if we would all just work together and realize that this is more efficient, then everybody would get where they're going faster. **[29:39] Patrick:** The humor in that statement, "we all just work together," is that you're sitting in front of me on a chair with your legs crossed, and you threw your arms out to the side. **[29:47] Chad:** Let's w- **[29:47] Patrick:** Right? Let's just all- **[29:47] Chad:** Can't we all- **[29:48] Patrick:** ... work together **[29:49] Chad:** ... can't we all just get along? **[29:50] Patrick:** Yeah, and let's go go... Let's do yoga now and make ourselves feel better about it. **[29:54] Chad:** That's why I do kinda look like I'm meditating here, right? **[29:56] Patrick:** You do. You look like you're meditating at the moment, yes. So I, I, I understand that some people feel like that's the logical truth, right? **[30:04] Chad:** It's not about some people feel like. It is the logical truth. **[30:07] Patrick:** You're, you're correct, yes. Uh, I apologize for the misstatement. But sometimes things are better unsaid. **[30:13] Chad:** If y- if you try to zip up your pants by putting the top tongs that are away, or whatever they're called, away from the zipper, the actual zipper m- mechanism, try to zip those first and see how efficient it is. **[30:28] Patrick:** And folks, I think we're gonna end our episode on that one. Uh, once again, hey guys, thanks for, uh, tuning in to ZacCast. We're excited for this episode obviously 'cause we had a lot of great announcements, uh, and we got to chat about a lot of goofy things that Chad believes are true. So anyways, we will catch you guys next time. **[30:54] Chad:** That about does it for episode 10. Show notes at ZacCast.com/10. If you listen to us on ZacCast.com, we are really appreciative, but it would be awesome if you would subscribe to our feed on iTunes or Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. And if you like what you hear, a five-star review would be extra appreciated. Thanks again. We'll see you next time.